red 80 tag on jerry can
- lucakiki
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Re: @&%%$#§
The question is whether or not the tags were an american thing.
Not what the content was.
MOGAS is obviously motorgas, just as AVGAS is aviation gas.
The idea that Mogas would enable a military vehicle to go like hell is ...[enter polite term].
An higher octane number than required for any given vehicle does not increase power.
The minimum octane required for a jeep is clearly noted in data plates.
Spreading false information is detrimental.
Does anyone know for sure whether or not those metal tags were an american as apple pie thing?
I have read that the small letter at times present at the side of the 80 number indicates a different temperature range for the use of the fuel contained
.I do not know if this is true, but it does seem plausible.
Not what the content was.
MOGAS is obviously motorgas, just as AVGAS is aviation gas.
The idea that Mogas would enable a military vehicle to go like hell is ...[enter polite term].
An higher octane number than required for any given vehicle does not increase power.
The minimum octane required for a jeep is clearly noted in data plates.
Spreading false information is detrimental.
Does anyone know for sure whether or not those metal tags were an american as apple pie thing?
I have read that the small letter at times present at the side of the 80 number indicates a different temperature range for the use of the fuel contained
.I do not know if this is true, but it does seem plausible.
Luca
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- REG
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can
Luca
Certainly the octane reading system appears to have been discovered, developed and standardised by the good 'ole U S of A.
So the question is, why bother to identify these Jerrycans as clearing anything different from that expected?
What other fuels were available for use? If a fuel with such a significantly different octane reading was in circulation you would have to ensure this wasn't used. and other tags manufactured.
Was diesel commonly used in the 1940s in Europe or the USA?
Were they fed up with the lines of soldiers at the medical centre who had mistakenly been ingesting petrol and not water?
What was the alternative - my red topped can tends to defeat any laws of camouflage and a small tag helps to subtely state that therein lies petrol!!
The system was created by the States and I ( without your considerably experience) haven't seen any photos of other nations using the tags ( not even the British!) so I would hazard a guess that the evidence points towards it being an American thing)
Certainly the octane reading system appears to have been discovered, developed and standardised by the good 'ole U S of A.
So the question is, why bother to identify these Jerrycans as clearing anything different from that expected?
What other fuels were available for use? If a fuel with such a significantly different octane reading was in circulation you would have to ensure this wasn't used. and other tags manufactured.
Was diesel commonly used in the 1940s in Europe or the USA?
Were they fed up with the lines of soldiers at the medical centre who had mistakenly been ingesting petrol and not water?
What was the alternative - my red topped can tends to defeat any laws of camouflage and a small tag helps to subtely state that therein lies petrol!!
The system was created by the States and I ( without your considerably experience) haven't seen any photos of other nations using the tags ( not even the British!) so I would hazard a guess that the evidence points towards it being an American thing)
REG
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can
These Red Tags are typical WWII Fuel can tags. Page 159 of the excellent WWII Jeep book "JEEP" 1940-1945 by Emile Becker/Guy Dentzer adds a few more pieces to the puzzle on these Red 80 Octane Tags.
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- lucakiki
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can
Becker and Dentzel do not add anything to the puzzle.
They merely show a picture with three jerrycans fitted with three different tags with the 80 octane number,without explaining whether they were American made or not.Nothing, repeat nothing,more than that.
Those red tags being "typical" WWII cans is obvious: no one denies that tags are WWII.So why repeat it once more?
What the interested guys would like to know is:
Were those used in both theaters?
What about the tags without the folding tabs?
Who copied them from the Germans, given it actually happened?
Has anyone seen a picture, WWII dated, with a jeep mounted jerrycan sporting such a tag? Any theater.
Al Brass at the beginning of this thread suggested that the tags were more of a depot thing, and not likely to be present on a vehicle mounted jerrycan: is there anyone in a position allowing to confute what Al posted?
Is there any one who can confirm how MOGAS would make vehicle military go like hell, as if an higher octane than the minimum required could really give higher power?
Or can we file such a bizarre idea under the title it deserves?
They merely show a picture with three jerrycans fitted with three different tags with the 80 octane number,without explaining whether they were American made or not.Nothing, repeat nothing,more than that.
Those red tags being "typical" WWII cans is obvious: no one denies that tags are WWII.So why repeat it once more?
What the interested guys would like to know is:
Were those used in both theaters?
What about the tags without the folding tabs?
Who copied them from the Germans, given it actually happened?
Has anyone seen a picture, WWII dated, with a jeep mounted jerrycan sporting such a tag? Any theater.
Al Brass at the beginning of this thread suggested that the tags were more of a depot thing, and not likely to be present on a vehicle mounted jerrycan: is there anyone in a position allowing to confute what Al posted?
Is there any one who can confirm how MOGAS would make vehicle military go like hell, as if an higher octane than the minimum required could really give higher power?
Or can we file such a bizarre idea under the title it deserves?
Luca
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can
WWII US ARMY D-Day Gasoline Supply Dumps had stacks of 5 Gallon Cans filled with only one grade of Gasoline- 80 Octane.
It is obvious that the tags had a US Army connection. It is doubtful that there was any connection between the US Army Quartermaster Corps and the German Army in reference to the Red 80 Octane GI Can Tags.
One thing that is for sure, those stacked 5 Gallon Gas Cans in the photo were being redied for use on Military Vehicles and there is nothing that would prevent their use on any type of WWII US ARMY vehicle, including the 1/4 Ton 4X4 truck.
It is obvious that the tags had a US Army connection. It is doubtful that there was any connection between the US Army Quartermaster Corps and the German Army in reference to the Red 80 Octane GI Can Tags.
One thing that is for sure, those stacked 5 Gallon Gas Cans in the photo were being redied for use on Military Vehicles and there is nothing that would prevent their use on any type of WWII US ARMY vehicle, including the 1/4 Ton 4X4 truck.
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- lucakiki
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Re: tags on jerry cans
No, it is not so obvious, or so many guys would not have had doubts.
Their names can be read in this thread and in other threads on the same subject.
Those cans were readied for their content to be used by the Allied forces and there is nothing that suggests that they would be loaded,one by one, on a jeep or on any other vehicle.
Have you ever seen a WWII dated picture of a can with the tag on a jeep?
Have you seen a WWII picture of a tagged jerrycan used anywhere in the Pacific Theater?
Are you willing to confirm that idea that MOGAS has the purpose to make one's military vehicle to go like hell,and explain to the audience how an higher octane than required by a given engine would increase power?
Their names can be read in this thread and in other threads on the same subject.
Those cans were readied for their content to be used by the Allied forces and there is nothing that suggests that they would be loaded,one by one, on a jeep or on any other vehicle.
Have you ever seen a WWII dated picture of a can with the tag on a jeep?
Have you seen a WWII picture of a tagged jerrycan used anywhere in the Pacific Theater?
Are you willing to confirm that idea that MOGAS has the purpose to make one's military vehicle to go like hell,and explain to the audience how an higher octane than required by a given engine would increase power?
Luca
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can
The Army Quartermaster Corps was responsible for the logistics involved in refueling the US Army stateside and overseas. That Life photo shows 5 gallon cans being stockpiled for use.
The T-4 in the LIFE photo is obviously a member of the US Army, and the caption indicates that the cans of gasoline are being stacked in preparation for the upcoming invasion of France.
The photo and the caption says it all.
The T-4 in the LIFE photo is obviously a member of the US Army, and the caption indicates that the cans of gasoline are being stacked in preparation for the upcoming invasion of France.
The photo and the caption says it all.
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- lucakiki
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can
Ben Dover wrote:The term "MOGAS" comes to mind, it is also called "Combat Gas" and is 80 Octane, the color code for MOGAS is RED. It's purpose is to make your MV go like hell.
Luca
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can
Not a tag to be seen..........Europe - Post D-Day
Jon Rogers
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can
Joel,Ben Dover wrote:The term "MOGAS" comes to mind, it is also called "Combat Gas" and is 80 Octane, the color code for MOGAS is RED. It's purpose is to make your MV go like hell.
I have checked your comment and I cant find anyone else, or any other source that refers to Gasoline used in the Armed Forces as 'Combat Gas'. Could you please provide a source for your statement. Introducing a Term without a reference, further dilutes the post of facts.
I'd also note the correct use of single and double inverted commas. You should only use single, unless the phrase you are quoting has internal punctuation. Queen's English. you know, Old Chap!
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can
Perhaps the Octane Tags were mainly used in areas such as airfields where more than one variety of gasoline might be present.
Roy
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can
It is slang derived from the painted markings found on some jerrycans: GASOLINE AUTO COMBAT. The octane rating sometimes follows the word gasoline.wjohn wrote:I have checked your comment and I cant find anyone else, or any other source that refers to Gasoline used in the Armed Forces as 'Combat Gas'.
I have only saw the COMBAT marking on 1950's cans, or with a painted 1950's date to record when the can was filled.
Roy
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can
Thanks, This provides one confirmation that a Post-war can was marked, GASOLINE, AUTO COMBAT; and that in the 1950s there may have been urban slang of the term. No references to earlier than 1950s, so it may not have been a term used in WW2. AUTO or the more correct term AUTOMOBILE was fist used in 1889. the Term GASOLINE was first used in 1865. the formation of a acronym of slang would also take some time to take hold. It is a reasonable assumption that Joel saw/heard the term in the 1950s/1960s once the slang term was introduce as a common lexicon into Aberdeen. No proof yet that it existed in the 1940s or earlier, or at least not in a Google search.gerrykan wrote:It is slang derived from the painted markings found on some jerrycans: GASOLINE AUTO COMBAT. The octane rating sometimes follows the word gasoline.wjohn wrote:I have checked your comment and I cant find anyone else, or any other source that refers to Gasoline used in the Armed Forces as 'Combat Gas'.
I have only saw the COMBAT marking on 1950's cans, or with a painted 1950's date to record when the can was filled.
However, I do appreciate that the tags would have more useful in locations where there was a mixture of Octane rated fuels, ipso an Airfield. Jon's photo (1944) in Europe shows that at least in that location the tagging of Fuel with Red Tags was not followed. The earlier photo (1944) is attributed to the UK, and the location (airfield?) or purpose of the tagging is not clear.
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can
Does anyone know where a guy could get his hands on some blank red tags?
Bill H.
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- lucakiki
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can
Ben Dover wrote:I. Note the photo of the American GI with the T-5 American GI rank...
T-4 or T-5Ben Dover wrote:
The T-4 in the LIFE photo is obviously a member of the US Army, and the caption indicates ...
Jon,a severe shortage of gas cans in 1944 is a well known fact that was somehow catered for by the British.[color=#FF0000]Jon[/color] wrote:
The picture reflects this,as a minimal percentage of the cans is of the US made kind.
At the present moment it appears that no picture of a tagged can on a vehicle is available,and that would suggest that displaying one on a jeep does not portray what might have been seen in war time.
Not sure about what you mean by blank but if you mean "not stamped" the tags would likely also not be red, as I think they were painted after they got stamped.Bill H. wrote:Does anyone know where a guy could get his hands on some blank red tags?
Is there anyone willing to comment on the idea that MOGAS,whenever introduced in the US army supply system, had the purpose of making a vehicle go like hell
I always thought that an higher grade fuel than what was required by a given engine would not have any effect on its power output.
Luca
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45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
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45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
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