red 80 tag on jerry can

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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by gerrykan » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:29 am

Jon's picture post illustrates the situation the best.
The octane tag seems like a good idea until you reach the battlefield.

It does not look practical (to me) to insure that every can is correctly tagged when operating on such a large scale.
Either that, or the GI with the tags has not come along yet.
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:44 am

The Life photo was taken in preparation for D-Day, prior to all the commotion and confusion of combat, It appears that the cans were marked and tagged according to regulation. Combat changes all that. Combat gas was a term picked up from the WWII/Korean era instructors at wheeled vehicle school and older WWII veteran GI's I served with back in the 60's.
And Bill, I bought two of the tags similar to the LIFE D-Day photo on Ebay a few years ago. They are the only "do-dad" displayed on my MB and CCKW. They do look nice and add some color.
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Re: the real questions.

Post by lucakiki » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:21 am

Are we concerned about "starting a conversation" and "adding some color", or are we rather willing to reach a better information on a question that is far from new, but not yet answered in a satisfactory way.?

In the famous picture were in preparation for D-Day, prior to all the commotion and confusion of combat, It appears that the cans were marked and tagged according to regulation:is there anyone who might think that they were marked and tagged against regulation?

It would be interesting to know which those regulations might have been.
It would be interesting to know whether or not these tags were used also in the Pacific theater.
It would be interesting to have at least a faint idea of the date of introduction.

Chuck Lutz had posted that the tags were copied by the British from the Germans: is there anyone in the position to confute that?


In the past, the display of a water bucket on a jeep has been labeled by Joel Gopan as a case of monkey see monkey do, even if there are plenty of war time pictures showing that it was done.
I guess that putting tags on a jeep jerrycan should be based on some solid information or a picture rather than merely to add some color, although I would not even think of putting unpleasant labels on such a questionable practice.

As for the idea that MOGAS would make one's vehicle go like hell,I personally think that is a proper load for the famous wheelbarrow.
I would gladly stand corrected if anyone can explain to me how an higher grade fuel than required, no matter how one decides to call it,could ever increase the power output of any engine.
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:49 am

Luca, are you planning to display the 80 Octane tags once you are convinced that they were used by the US Army during WWII.
We also see the Preparation for Deep Water Fording stickers (Invasion Flags) on some WWII vehicles, but not on all of them. Would your conclusion on their official use be in the same train of thought?
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by lucakiki » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:06 am

Ben Dover wrote:Luca, are you planning to display the 80 Octane tags once you are convinced that they were used by the US Army during WWII.
We also see the Preparation for Deep Water Fording stickers (Invasion Flags) on some WWII vehicles, but not on all of them. Would your conclusion on their official use be in the same train of thought?
I am already convinced that the U.S. Army during WWII used the tags: I had seen that color picture many moons ago.
So, yes I would not mind fitting one of those tags on a jerrycan, provided it has the slots enabling to do it.As a matter of fact one of my cans has been fitted with one.

What I would not do, with no need to digress into fording labels, is to display such a can on a vehicle, because there is no proof that it might have happened.
Even less I would use it a conversation starter. As simple as that.

There is plenty of questions still to be answered on jerrycan tags.
Also, there is a direct question: how would an higher than required fuel grade allow a vehicle to go like hell :?:
Is this something you learned before you had been trained by the Army etc. etc. etc. :roll:
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:37 am

Just a little over 50 years ago we bought a semitrailer load of a few thousand GI Cans from Letterkenny Army Depot, they were steciled GASOLINE AUTO, COMBAT TYPE 1 and MOGAS- COMBAT TYPE 1. I have a few similarly marked cans dated in the early 60's with similar Nomenclature, they also came from Letterkenny.
The term Combat Gas has been around a while.

FYI, slots are not necessary in order to attach the 80 Octane Tags, there are 3 ears that are made to fold over the front of lifting handle on the GI Gas can. The LIFE photo illustrates that.
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Answer to digressions.

Post by lucakiki » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:12 am

Ben Dover wrote:Just a little over 50 years ago we bought a semitrailer load of a few thousand GI Cans from Letterkenny Army Depot, they were steciled GASOLINE AUTO, COMBAT TYPE 1 and MOGAS- COMBAT TYPE 1. I have a few similarly marked cans dated in the early 60's with similar Nomenclature, they also came from Letterkenny.
The term Combat Gas has been around a while.
We are talking about WAR TIME, and what was stenciled on cans postwar is not pertinent.Were any of those cans you are talking about war time dated?
As repeated ad nauseam, one thing is use of cans in depots and in bulk transport of fuel, and one thing is the jerrycans that were carried on a vehicle.
Have you any evidence of tagged cans on a vehicle?
Have you any factual answers to the relevant issues about jerrycan tags?
Ben dover also wrote: FYI, slots are not necessary in order to attach the 80 Octane Tags, there are 3 ears that are made to fold over the front of lifting handle on the GI Gas can. The LIFE photo illustrates that.
Here is a close picture of how a three eared tag ( whoever made it) attached to a jerrycan.

Image
Would you be so kind to explain to the audience how the lower ear goes through the handle, if the slot is missing, as in early cans? :idea:

So, still convinced that there is a kind of fuel, no matter how you decide to call it, that increases power output because of an higher octane number than required in a given engine?
Would you explain to the audience how that would happen, so no one is tempted to label such a bizarre idea with unpolite lterms :?:
Luca

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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:57 am

D-Day was after "pre 43", it was probable that "pre 43" cans were not in the logistic chain issue for the D-Day build up.
There are lots of topics that make good discussion concerning GI Cans. Why did the Army operate Slat Grill and other early Jeeps that were not equipped with Gas Can Brackets in post D-Day ETO?
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can, and useless digressions

Post by lucakiki » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:51 am

Why do you keep digressing?
This thread is about red tags on jerrycans, not on the jerrycans in that famous picture.
And, quite frankly, who gives a rat's about the stencils on the cans you bought postwar.
We are talking metal tags and war time.

You posted about three eared tags not needing a slot , and I showed you how the slot is actually needed,FYI.
Something that would have been perfectly clear, had you read Jon's post and looked at the picture with a minimum of attention..
As the generous guy that I am, I also retrieved this picture that had been posted by that nice chap called Derek Eddlestone, so you better understand how the tag is fitted to a jerrycan. Look!
Image

What is the use of talking of the date of the cans in that picture,since they do appear as having the tags correctly fitted?

What is the use of talking slat grills on this thread other than an unrequired digression without any gain on the required information?
The moderation clearly expressed how useless digressions are not appreciated.
I suspect you are merely trying to increase your post count, while not contributing in any way to the required information about the metal tags.
Spreading false information about higher grade fuel than required supposedly allowing vehicles to go like hell is just that:detrimental waste of bandwidth, only good for the wheelbarrow.
Luca

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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by Jon » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:25 am

It would seem, that after considerable magnification I was in error..

There's at least, perhaps more, than the two cans circled that carry tags.
What's also interesting is the use of Water Cans opening type (ROUND) being filled with fuel, most are the flip top lids
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by lucakiki » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:55 pm

Jon,that is quite interesting, and it would show an approximate date when those tags were in use.

What most of us would like to know with at least a decent closeness to the truth is whether these tags were an american as apple pie thing, or rather something else.
An old article on the original Army Motors shows a whole array of metyal tags used to denote contents, but these were the kind with a hole to attach them to the container with wire or whatever, not the three tabs kind similar to the gerry ones.

If we go back to the original question which originated the thread,it appears that Al's answer is quite likely very correct.

That is why the repro tags might add some color on a restored vehicle, but are not likely to be depicting what actually happened.
The vast majority of us is interested in improving our knowledge also on minor issues like the tags, and when some questionable statement is posted legitimately confutes it.
That is why I am still waiting for some unbiased opinion on that Mogas fuel allegedly enabling military vehicles to go like hell,as Joel Gopan posted without ever explaining how that would happen.

Here is what John Barton had posted ,back in 2006:
john barton wrote:Image
octane tags?
US rehearsal for OVERLORD 1944..
not your US can??
Luca

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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by tipdog » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:35 pm

Jon said:
What's also interesting is the use of Water Cans opening type (ROUND) being filled with fuel, most are the flip top lids
Jon, what are you referring to? I see U.S. style screw top cans, and German/UK ("Euro") style "flip-top" spouts, but I don't see any U.S. style flip-top water cans and lids - wich were larger and centered when compared with the Euro cans. Of course, without knowing anything more about the picture - date? location? - it's hard to establish context. This could be in the PTO, or more likely, it's in the ETO.

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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by tipdog » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:49 pm

Some U.S. Army Quartermaster Corps history that people might find helpful: http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/WWII/i ... #Petroleum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and Water

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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by Jon » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:59 pm

Just saying .......if you re-read it......... ROUND type. not water cans..........just to distinguish the flip top from round. sheezzzzzzz
Next time I'll be more pedantic.
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Re: red 80 tag on jerry can

Post by lucakiki » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:12 pm

tipdog wrote:. Of course, without knowing anything more about the picture - date? location? - it's hard to establish context. This could be in the PTO, or more likely, it's in the ETO.
It is a portion of the captioned picture Jon had posted.
Jon wrote:Not a tag to be seen..........Europe - Post D-Day

Image
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
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