Jerrycan RTMP

Manufacturers, production numbers, configurations, etc.
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Silly's MB
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Re: Jerrycan RTMP

Post by Silly's MB » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:53 pm

My problem with Richard Thomas is that they were known as Richard Thomas and Co. not Richard Thomas Metal Products (as far as I can find out) but I have no better suggestions currently.
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bombtech
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Re: Jerrycan RTMP

Post by bombtech » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:13 am

Sillly's MB,
I agree that Gracesguide shows it as RT& Co. and not RTMP. Perhaps due to you location (UK) you may be able to access records that we here in America can not. If your search leads to any info on CP&F as well I would be very interested. I look at these questions of manufacturing identity as intellectual challenges that offer opportunities of intense research and study. My personal goal is to have some form of evidence to validate each maker. I am hopeful that Rajeee can find period documentation to support his claim, that would be very exciting.
Cheers,
Rick
MVPA #5278, WAC B&G MVT, OMHA
1987 HMMWV w/ M101A3
1989 Perentie
1966 M274A2 Mechanical Mule
1990 FAV Saker

Chuck Lutz
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Re: Jerrycan RTMP

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:56 am

To start with, RTMP is "Rio Tinto Metal Powders"....not "powers".
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
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Klaas
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Re: Jerrycan RTMP

Post by Klaas » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:40 pm

Now only for some real evidence that they (Rio Tinto) made jerrycans during WW2. (from powdered metal or real steel :D )
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Chuck Lutz
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Re: Jerrycan RTMP

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:46 am

I would think that it would be a better way to approach this question is if we investigated BOTH companies. Asking for proof if Rio Tinto made them and lacking any evidence does not automatically guarantee Richard Thomas made them does it? It only means no current evidence has been found for THAT mfger.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)


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Silly's MB
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Re: Jerrycan RTMP

Post by Silly's MB » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:33 pm

Rio Tinto Metal Powders was not founded until 1968 so I doubt very much it was that specific RTMP.
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Empty vessels make the most noise .......

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Re: Jerrycan RTMP

Post by Klaas » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:35 am

I have been searching the web for RTMP yesterday all day; not only for jerrycans, but also steel ammo boxes ( there is a reference in a forum that RTMP made these too) and steel helmets, but still no luck.
The name Richard Thomas linked to RTMP I found some years ago in a forum, but I can't find that again; I should have saved that text somewhere, but I didn't :oops:
The search continues......
Klaas
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Klaas
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Re: Jerrycan RTMP

Post by Klaas » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:04 am

Silly's MB wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:33 pm
Rio Tinto Metal Powders was not founded until 1968 so I doubt very much it was that specific RTMP.
Silly's MB, I sent you a PM
Klaas
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BSA Airborne Bicycle R45105
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bombtech
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Re: Jerrycan RTMP

Post by bombtech » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:53 pm

Klaas,
On 01 Jan 2014, I posted a request for assistance on the British Ordnance Collectors Net (BOCN) in identifying several manufacturers stampings on jerry cans that I thought might also be on metal ammunition chests. Only two replys to date as pasted below;
AMS - All Metal Smallware, Birmingham. UK
CP &F - ?
E.W.B. � E.W. Bliss Ltd, Derby. UK
LMP � London Metal Products, Ilford. UK
MMOR � Minneapolis � Moline Power Implement Co. USA,
RTMP - R.T. Metals Production, Swansea, UK (This might actually be R.T. Metal Products of Vancouver)
I searched for more definition on the two possible RTMP names at the time and came up with little. RT Metal Products of Vancouver in one note states they are 25 years at a location. In another line they state in business for 85 years, however the current line of products seams to be threaded items and not sheet metal cans. I could find no WW2 period history to see if they made cans as part of the war effort.
You will note much to my dismay that no possible names were associated with CP&F from the poster who answered my query.
And the hunt continues....
Rick
MVPA #5278, WAC B&G MVT, OMHA
1987 HMMWV w/ M101A3
1989 Perentie
1966 M274A2 Mechanical Mule
1990 FAV Saker

bombtech
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Re: Jerrycan RTMP

Post by bombtech » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:06 pm

If stay up long enough searching the interweb, you eventually find stuff like this RTMP ammunition chest. Photo and data from BOCN.
P59 RTMP 1940.jpg
Size: Length 19.15" Breadth 7.85" Depth 8.5"

Used for:
25-pr. Q.F. gun Shell, H.E.
Number Packed: 4
Gross weight: 115 lbs
25-pr. Q.F. gun Shell, Chem
Number Packed: 4
Gross weight: 96 lbs
25-pr. Q.F. gun Shell, Smoke
Number Packed: 4
Gross weight: 104 lbs
Grenades No. 68
Number Packed: 17
Gross weight: 50 lbs
Bomb, hand incendiary 1 1/4-lb
Number Packed: 24
Gross weight: 46 lbs

I call these 'sister products' or 'pairings', meaning items made by the same company that stamped jerry cans. I try to collect a sample for each of the can manufacturers. Some are very similar such as civilian POL cans, others military wares such as helmets or canteens, or in the case of Arvin Noblitt Sparks a car radio.
Cheers,
Rick
MVPA #5278, WAC B&G MVT, OMHA
1987 HMMWV w/ M101A3
1989 Perentie
1966 M274A2 Mechanical Mule
1990 FAV Saker

bombtech
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Re: Jerrycan RTMP

Post by bombtech » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:11 pm

P59 RTMP 1940.jpg
P59 RTMP 1940.jpg (84.89 KiB) Viewed 259 times
Rick
MVPA #5278, WAC B&G MVT, OMHA
1987 HMMWV w/ M101A3
1989 Perentie
1966 M274A2 Mechanical Mule
1990 FAV Saker

Klaas
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Re: Jerrycan RTMP

Post by Klaas » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:47 pm

Hi Rick,

Thanks for your research up to now.
I found a short Youtube film about a B167A RTMP ammo box: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYxUDDf28kw
Alas no information on the maker there as well :x
Side stepping to ammo boxes: I have a C224 (box for 5.5 inch shells) made by F&L =Fisher and Ludlow from Birmingham UK, who also made jerrycans.
Unfortunately I have no information on CP&F (yet)

The search goes on...
Klaas
GPW17331 - DOD april 21 1942 - Dallas
BSA Airborne Bicycle R45105
BSA Airborne Bicycle R49171

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Silly's MB
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Re: Jerrycan RTMP

Post by Silly's MB » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:34 am

Hi Klaas,
Thanks for your message. I have found the videos before and they don't really offer much insight into war work. The 1960 video shows what they were manufacturing then and the presses at work which were producing a similar sort of thing such as pressed wheels and fuel tanks and I am suspicious the pressings didn't start until they teemed up with Baldwins. They were exciting days for the steel industry and it is a bit depressing now with all the factories closed/closing !

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/wat ... 960-online

If you have a word with Yves (YLG80) he may be able to get a copy up and running you can watch like he did for the Magnatex video.

The 1937 video is mainly from outside showing building work and not showing anything of use.

I am keeping my eyes open !
Limited access.
1942 August Willys MB
Complete MVMTS 100% sourced in the ETO

Empty vessels make the most noise .......

Klaas
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Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:38 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Jerrycan RTMP

Post by Klaas » Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:48 am

Hi all,

Found this yesterday during the Search....pity about the censorship.
Attachments
Can Can can.jpg
Can Can can.jpg (86.19 KiB) Viewed 254 times
Klaas
GPW17331 - DOD april 21 1942 - Dallas
BSA Airborne Bicycle R45105
BSA Airborne Bicycle R49171

Klaas
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Re: Jerrycan RTMP

Post by Klaas » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:00 am

Silly's MB wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:34 am
Hi Klaas,
Thanks for your message. I have found the videos before and they don't really offer much insight into war work. The 1960 video shows what they were manufacturing then and the presses at work which were producing a similar sort of thing such as pressed wheels and fuel tanks and I am suspicious the pressings didn't start until they teemed up with Baldwins. They were exciting days for the steel industry and it is a bit depressing now with all the factories closed/closing !

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/wat ... 960-online

If you have a word with Yves (YLG80) he may be able to get a copy up and running you can watch like he did for the Magnatex video.

The 1937 video is mainly from outside showing building work and not showing anything of use.

I am keeping my eyes open !
Hi Silly's MB,

Thanks for the information.
I have sent Yves a PM about this.
Klaas
GPW17331 - DOD april 21 1942 - Dallas
BSA Airborne Bicycle R45105
BSA Airborne Bicycle R49171

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