List of radios for WWII MVs.

Radio Telephone and Telegraph Transmitting and Receiving Equipment
NavRad
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Post by NavRad » Tue Jan 14, 2003 7:48 pm

There any way to tell when these radio systems were brought into operation? For example the TCS ran TCS-5 thru 15 but I'm informed the TCS-9 was the first used in the MZ Radio Jeeps. From what I see of those first few radios they would be appropriate for an early jeep, Slat Grill?

Mark,
The TCS radio didn't start at TCS-5. It started at TCS & produced inclusive to TCS-15. TCS-14 was the last of the TCS series to be produced during WWII. The information I have on the MZ radio jeeps are as follows:
1. MZ used in Reconnaissance Car, TCS (any) & special antenna assembly. No date listed.
2. MZ-1 TCS 1943 Same as MZ. Contracted by Willys. Manual: Navships 95147 for both MZ-1 & 2.
3. MZ-2 TCS 1944 Same as MZ. Contracted by Willys in Reconnaissance Car Type 10182-B.

Now if the AN/VRC-1 was called an MRC-19 was that during WWII?

The date I have for the AN/VRC-1 is 6/17/44.
Stock number 2S4502-1. Mounted in cabinet CH-217. Manual TM11-277.

The first set designated MRC was the AN/MRC-1 dated 12/15/44. I cannot locate a date for the MRC-19. It does state the Manufacture's Name & Code Number as U.S. Marine Corp, Electronic Division, 80372. The description for the AN/MRC-19B states that it used truck V-35/U. It would be appropriate to assume that the MRC-19 was produced after WWII.

One final item, are there examples of these radios still out there? Like the TCH, I've heard of it, but never seen any photos or know of anyone having such a radio. Maybe I just need to look harder! :wink:

The TCH was designed & produced by the Collins company originally as the commercial model 18M. The US Navy ordered only 1 contract run Dated 7/20/40 as far as I know. I have one in my collection & have seen & heard of 2 or 3 others over the years.
Most of the time you can locate the radio, but the hard part is finding all the accessories & mountings to complete a specific set.

Some Dates for sets we talked about: DAX-1944, DAY-1944, DAZ-1944, MAH-1944, MAK-1943, MAX-1944, MN-1942 MN-5-1944, MO-1-1942.

Some more WWII sets to add to your list:
1. MAL (MAH) in Jeep Type CVD-10182 with Gas Generator Trailer Type RMM-10269. 1943
2. MAO SCR-510 in Jeep Type CVD-10182. 1944.
3. MAQ SCR-499 & SCR-542 in M3 Half Track & PE-95 Generator in Trailer.

Regards,
NavRad
Steve Finelli


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Mark Tombleson
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Post by Mark Tombleson » Wed Jan 15, 2003 12:54 am

Interesting data, I will chew on this some Steve.

I used the TCS-5 as a starting point as that is the earliest model shown in the Navy and Marine Corps manuals I have.

From what I gather your data seems to show three groups or contracts for the MZ series, but it is odd that the MZ-1 uses the CVD-10182 (that is what is on my data plate) The MZ-2 the CVD-10182-B and yet if the MZ was first; what was its designation? :?

Another issue is I have only found one Navy contract for radio jeeps to Willys-Overland, NXsr-17083 dated 3 November 1942 for 1990 jeeps with certain radio equipment. This documentation says this order was intended to meet the requirements of the Marine Corps but the order was placed by the Bureau of Ships because of the Bureau's control over the radio equipment involved. The documentation says that further orders will be thru the Marine Corps. So do we have one contract that included the MZ and MZ-1?

Steve, do you have this manual, Navships 95147 for both MZ-1 & 2? I wonder is it has the same contract number on it? The contract number on my data plate for the MZ-1 is NXsr-40994, for all of MZ-2 with data plates, NXsr-53300. All of the manuals I have are just on the radio and are called Instruction Books the earliest Navy one is NXsr-LL-36727. The Marine Corps Radio Materiel School one for the TCS-5 is undated with no identification at all on it, but the information is similar in most respects.

You certainly have some great stuff Steve, thanks for sharing! :D

I will try to amend the article soon; right now it is unavailable, why is a question only Ron can answer.
MB-NAVY-MZ-1 352625 - 07/20/44 (DOD est.)
U.S.N. 133818
2nd place Restored Class 2008 Portland Convention
MVPA Hall of Fame - 2013

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DavidA
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Post by DavidA » Thu Jan 16, 2003 6:19 pm

Wow Mark and company...you guys got your radio stuff down pat.

I am curious, did the USAAF use any particular radio on the ground to park the planes? Something basic ? When the planes landed they must have had some means of ground comm to direct the pilots to parking, fuel and basics. Something that a "Follow Me" jeep might have had.

Great lists fellows. Talk about your hyrogliphics...An\prc9.10yada yada whatcamacallit. I am impressed. :shock:

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carli nelissen
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Post by carli nelissen » Sat Jan 18, 2003 1:57 pm

hi mark,

great list. is it possible that you put some pics in the
list so I know where I have to look out for. I want to put
a radio on my GPW. I would also like to know in which
period the different types were introduced.

thanks
42 GPW 10027
44 Cushman Airborne
The Netherlands

NavRad
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Post by NavRad » Sun Jan 19, 2003 9:19 pm

From what I gather your data seems to show three groups or contracts for the MZ series, but it is odd that the MZ-1 uses the CVD-10182 (that is what is on my data plate) The MZ-2 the CVD-10182-B and yet if the MZ was first; what was its designation? :?

Another issue is I have only found one Navy contract for radio jeeps to Willys-Overland, NXsr-17083 dated 3 November 1942 for 1990 jeeps with certain radio equipment. This documentation says this order was intended to meet the requirements of the Marine Corps but the order was placed by the Bureau of Ships because of the Bureau's control over the radio equipment involved. The documentation says that further orders will be thru the Marine Corps. So do we have one contract that included the MZ and MZ-1?

Mark,
The listing I took the information from on the MZ, MZ-1 & 2 didn't have any other notations for the "MZ" than what I stated in the earlier post. It only listed contract year of production for MZ-1 & 2. It may be possible that the MZ was a developmental designation & the first production contract started at MZ-1.

Steve, do you have this manual, Navships 95147 for both MZ-1 & 2? I wonder is it has the same contract number on it? The contract number on my data plate for the MZ-1 is NXsr-40994, for all of MZ-2 with data plates, NXsr-53300. All of the manuals I have are just on the radio and are called Instruction Books the earliest Navy one is NXsr-LL-36727. The Marine Corps Radio Materiel School one for the TCS-5 is undated with no identification at all on it, but the information is similar in most respects.

Sorry, I don't have any manual on the MZ series. It may be that they only produced a preliminary manual for the MZ-1 & didn't come out with a "Standard" manual until the MZ-2s were into production & it covered both series. The navy did this with other sets.
The contract date for the TCS-5 is Nov. 6, 1942 Contract LL-NXSS-8142.

A couple of good reference books for WWII US Navy/Marine Corps sets are:
1. Catalogue Of Naval Radio Equipment, SHIPS 275, dated 1 August 1944. 228 pages. It lists with a description, photo(s) (of most sets) & specifications of shipboard, ground & some infantry communication equipment. This includes some Signal Corps equipment used by the Marine Corps too.

2. List Of Naval Radio, Radar, And Sonar Equipment, SHIPS 242A, dated January 1945. 141 pages. This listing covers almost every radio set the US Navy procured during WWII & earlier. It's just a brief listing without any photos but covers (in most cases) who used it, for what & year of contract. It also lists the manufacturers 2, 3 & 4 letter production code. example: CRV-***** = RCA.

Copies of these are available from Robert Downs,
email: WA5CAB@cs.com

A couple more Signal Corps sets that were used in vehicles & by infantry
during WWII: 1. SCR-194 (BC-222) 27.7 - 52.2 MC 0.75 watt.
2. SCR-195 (BC-322) 52.8 - 65.8 MC 0.5 watt. The SCR-194/195 were our first "Walkie Talkies" developed in mid 1930s & used early in WWII.
3. SCR-593-A BC-728-A 2 - 6 MC receiver. 1943.

Regards,
NavRad
Steve Finelli
navrad@enter.net

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Mark Tombleson
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Post by Mark Tombleson » Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:03 pm

Just got in the "Complete Guide to WWII Military Communications Equipment", by Sam Hevener :D
I does contain USAAF, British and Navy sets as well as the Army Signal Corps sets.

Need to finish revising the article, but so many sets. :shock:
MB-NAVY-MZ-1 352625 - 07/20/44 (DOD est.)
U.S.N. 133818
2nd place Restored Class 2008 Portland Convention
MVPA Hall of Fame - 2013

Jim Gilmore
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Post by Jim Gilmore » Tue Feb 04, 2003 8:36 pm

NAVRAD.......


Steve,

Does not the Navy data sheets for the MZ-1 just list the TCS unit and acces. and not designate this unit as being installed in a specific vehicle?

I do not remember the sheet as saying it was a Willys contract or that it was installed in a CVD-10182.

The MZ-2 did list Willys as the contractor.

Check the data sheets and let me know if I remember correctly.


Also.........If one were to mount a MB set in a MB and drive very, very fast would it not work?

How fast does a blimp go anyways? :-)

Jim Gilmore

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Mark Tombleson
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Post by Mark Tombleson » Wed Feb 05, 2003 12:25 pm

I'm confused again? :?

What Navy data sheets are we discussing and can I get a copy?

As far as the contract with the Navy, Todd Paisley wrote in this thread he found these parts in one of the BOM:

http://www.g503.com/boards/read.php?f=1&i=18031&t=17140

...The MZ-1 variant had these parts different:

A-10622 Spare Gas Can Brkt. & Conn. Parts Assy.
A-10623 Spare Wheel Suppt. Brkt. & Conn. Parts Assy.
A-10624 Antenna Box, Antenna tunning Knob Box & Cover & Conn. Parts Assy.
A-10625 Frt. Lifting Ring & Brkt. Assy. & Conn. Parts Assy.
A-10626 Pintle Hook & Conn. Parts Assy.
A-10627 Rear Bumperette & Conn. Parts Assy.
A-10628 Spare Tire Suppt. Brkt. Assy. (Lower) & Conn. Parts Assy.
A-10629 Spare Wheel Lock & Chain Ring Assy.
A-10630 Radio Battery Tray Assy. Comp. & Drain Hose Assy. Lt.
A-10631 Radio Battery Tray Assy. Comp. & Drain Hose Assy. Right
A-15258 Antenna Kit - As Supplied by the US Navy
A-15259 Model TCS-9 Radio Equipment as Supp. by US Navy
A-15270 Head Phones - Carron Type US - 42 (or equiv.)
A-15271 Lord Shock Mount Set
A-15272 Name Plate - MZ-1 Texolite #8
A-15273 Ferrule - 1/2" Amphenol
A-15275 Radio Trans. to Antenna Wire
A-15276 Ground Strap Assy. - Receiver Complete

Add a MB-NAVY-12-Volt and this is the recipe for a MZ-1. Cook to a forest green color.... ;)
Todd...

My original Name Plate can be seen at:

http://geocities.com/powermwt1/index.html

The Name Plate lists the CVD-10182, the TCS series radio equipment and the antenna assembly, and the contract. I'm still wondering why Willys considered the jeep and radio assembly an MZ-1 but the Navy wanted it listed as a CVD-10182? Do any of Willys records list the CVD-10182? What about the MAH, that used a CVD-10182 and a RT-19/ARC-4? Is there a BOM for it?

Now Todd also emailed me a list off of the BOM for the MZ-2, which has both the factory produced MZ-2 and the MZ-2 conversion kit.

The above list for the MZ-1 Todd posted while very informative (and I thank him for that), is not complete as it does not cover the frame, body and other items. For example they list the headphones but not the key or microphone; the battery boxes but no radio cabinets, rear seat and chest. The frame is made different, not just modified. Same with the body.

Very interesting is the length of time the contracts appeared to take and some other strange issues. Like USN 133738, USN 133744 and USN 133818 (pre composite body features with composite accessories like type II suppression, late spare carrier and foot) being completed over at least a six month period (Feb 1944 to Jul 1944), some MZ-2 with composite features on late 1943 frames(MB-270693 and MB-297021), MZ-2 in groups made before my MZ-1 (MB-343431 and MB-343451) and after mine (MB-380901 and MB-380914).

With all of the fragmented information I see patterns but no real answers as yet. Even the front/rear 9/10 spring issue is not settled as we don't really know much about the rears and if the fronts were ever installed. Couple that with the changeover in the summer of 1944 to the 10/11 spring set up and you have a mystery. The jeep had to support an additional 850# generator/radio equipment load than a standard jeep so I can't see the 10/11 springs working either. The springs on my jeep, though similar to regular MB spring are 1/4" thick per leaf. Are they correct? Who knows? :?

Also what about the MZ-2 Name Plate with the SCR-608 listed on it? That used a CVD-10182-B and was installed by the Navy at the Philadelphia Naval shipyard. How did that jeep leave the factory, as an MZ-2 but w/o the radio equipment, or a CVD-10182-B that doesn't seem to show up on the BOM?

I have asked Todd and Keith on some of these issues, but I'm not sure they look at this part of the Board.

Jeez, I'm rambling again about my favorite subject. :oops: :lol: :P
MB-NAVY-MZ-1 352625 - 07/20/44 (DOD est.)
U.S.N. 133818
2nd place Restored Class 2008 Portland Convention
MVPA Hall of Fame - 2013

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Herb Tate
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Post by Herb Tate » Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:38 pm

Thanks Mark!!! Now I have to decide which one I want. Too bad they didn't have lower sideband :cry:
Herb KC5MO
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Mark Tombleson
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Post by Mark Tombleson » Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:32 am

I thought I would bump this up and find out if anyone had any futher radio information. If not I will update my list. :wink:
MB-NAVY-MZ-1 352625 - 07/20/44 (DOD est.)
U.S.N. 133818
2nd place Restored Class 2008 Portland Convention
MVPA Hall of Fame - 2013

Gaston Barmore

USAAF VHF Radios Used During WWII

Post by Gaston Barmore » Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:48 pm

Two VHF radios were used by the USAAF for 2-way plane to plane and plane to ground communication during WWII. These same radios were also used by the USAF during the Korean War.
The most common radio used was the SCR-522, a 4 channel, 6 watt AM crystal controled transceiver. Later in the war the ARC-3 was introduced, an 8 channel, 6 watt AM crystal controlled transceiver. Both of these transceivers were designed for 28VDC operation.
The SCR-522 when supplied with a PE-98 dynamotor operated on 14VDC and was redisignated as SCR-542.
The SCR-624 was an air transportable ground to air radio which used SCR-522 components and an RA-62C 115VAC power supply.
The AN/VRC-1 also used SCR-522 components for ground to air communications.
Most "Follow Me" jeeps used the SCR-522 and an aircraft 28 V battery which was recharged daily. This same set-up was used in Korea for foward air control jeeps. Later in the war, the SCR-522 was replaced by the ARC-3.
The Texas Military Forces Museum at Camp Mabry in Austin, Texas has a WW2/Korea mock- up displaying these radios and their associated test equipment.
Gaston Barmore, COL USAF (Ret)

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Mark Tombleson
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Post by Mark Tombleson » Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:47 pm

Interesting Gaston!

It is my understanding the Navy and USMC used MB's like mine with the 24v in between the seat generator for the same purpose, as well as starter help from some aircraft from late 1943 in WWII thru Korea.

Do you know if the USAAF has similar equipment, or had aircraft starting capability?

Also interesting the SCR-522 had compatable frequency range with the MAH RT-19/ARC-4 system that operated on 140-144 MC AM and was used in the Navy/USMC radio jeeps for ground to air communications.

I have not explored the aircraft radio side of this issue but I do understand communications between sea, land and air must be compatable, at least with some units. :wink:
MB-NAVY-MZ-1 352625 - 07/20/44 (DOD est.)
U.S.N. 133818
2nd place Restored Class 2008 Portland Convention
MVPA Hall of Fame - 2013

Gaston Barmore

Auxiliary Power Units

Post by Gaston Barmore » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:06 pm

Mark,
I never encountered a USAF WW2 jeep equipped with the 28VDC generator set-up you describe.In fact I can only recall seeing one VRC-1 equipped WW2 jeep and that was before the Korean War.
The WW2 aircraft I was associated before and during the Korean War used an auxiliary Av gas powered 28VDC generator built by HomeLite for starting and powering electronic equipment while parked.
Gaston

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Mark Tombleson
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Post by Mark Tombleson » Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:26 pm

I thought I would bump this up again and find out if anyone had any futher radio information. I'm behind update the list. :roll:
MB-NAVY-MZ-1 352625 - 07/20/44 (DOD est.)
U.S.N. 133818
2nd place Restored Class 2008 Portland Convention
MVPA Hall of Fame - 2013

Wes Gladhart

MRC and PRC8-10 Mounting

Post by Wes Gladhart » Tue Feb 03, 2004 10:38 pm

Mark;
MRC is when a vehicle is attatched to a radio set. The vehicle loses it's identity as an inventoried item and is a component of the set. The name changes 'cause it's now a different system.
Badin;
PRC 8-10 also could be mounted to a vehicle with a non-electrical mount that just straps the radio down The radio is poweed by it's own battery.
Mine is in storage so I can't give you an actual model name right now.


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