Black light and WWII Uniform Insignia

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Hammerhead
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Black light and WWII Uniform Insignia

Post by Hammerhead » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:09 pm

I have seen it mentioned in "for sale" ads for WWII uniforms and insignia that say "original, doesn't Fluores under a Black light". Then the other day I saw an ad that said "100% original WWII, Floureses". Can someone clear this up? Thanks
1943 White M-3 Halftrack, 1944 CCKW 353, 1945 MB, 1944 Bantam T3,
1945 Ben-Hur 1-ton trailer, MVPA 12610, NRA Life Member


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Chuck Lutz
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Re: Black light and WWII Uniform Insignia

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:07 pm

Generally speaking.... the fluorescence under a black light is due to optical brighteners that were introduced post-WWII.

No florescence, WWII or earlier.
Chuck Lutz

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Hammerhead
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Re: Black light and WWII Uniform Insignia

Post by Hammerhead » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:31 pm

That's what I had always heard but I needed to check; my memory just isn't what it used to be! Thanks for the clarification Chuck.
1943 White M-3 Halftrack, 1944 CCKW 353, 1945 MB, 1944 Bantam T3,
1945 Ben-Hur 1-ton trailer, MVPA 12610, NRA Life Member

AZ Jeff
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Re: Black light and WWII Uniform Insignia

Post by AZ Jeff » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:30 pm

A few comments on testing cloth insignia:

* The white components of a cloth insignia are what will potentially "glow". Therefore, insignia with no white cloth/wool/thread will not glow.

* Fake, hand-sewn bullion insignia may have white thread (and/or underlying card stock embroidery guides) that glow even though the patch has no overt white features. The fake Nazi bullion insignia (for example) from the 60s are looking pretty "original" these days.

* Many, but not all, WW2 U.S. patches -- and some issue patches up into the 50s/early 60s -- were made with a white bobbin thread. The fakers are now using off-white/beige bobbin thread to mask their copies from UV detection. Also remember that even a fake with tell-tale bobbin thread can't be checked for that once it's sewn to a uniform or hat.

* A burn test (exactly what it implies) on sample thread from a suspect patch is often necessary. Natural thread will turn to soot under magnification. Synthetics and natural-covered synthetics will melt. Same goes for the cotton twill base cloth commonly used on WW2 and later patches. The Germans used rayon in many machine-woven (brand name "BeVo") insignia during WW2. The white on those original patches does not glow. And yes, there are fakes made from the "right" materials these days... just to make it interesting.

* Fakes are not limited to just the rare stuff. I've seen (common) WW2 Army Service Forces (ASF) patches as good reproductions.

* Finally... if an original patch has been washed/cleaned in some modern agents it may now glow. Try explaining THAT to a potential, paranoid buyer.

Patch collecting is a minefield these days. Unfortunately, dirt, mothing, and evidence of being "uniform-removed" are NOT guarantees that something is real. Those who haven't been burned by a good fake of a rare patch... probably haven't been collecting long enough.

Jeff Q.
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