WTK: Value on WWII Rifles - Photos inside

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WTK: Value on WWII Rifles - Photos inside

Post by armament » Tue May 26, 2009 8:04 pm

I have very little knowledge on WWII Title 1 small arms, so I am going to refer to the experts here. I am trying to figure out what a realistic market value is for the two rifles below. I had a elderly woman come by my building and tell me that she saw an article in the paper about my WWII collection. Her husband was a WWII veteran and collector of small arms. She told me that he had passed away about 10 years ago and his firearms collection was sold at that time. She is currently in the process of selling her home and she found these two rifles in the attic. She read that I was a WWII collector and wanted to bring them by to show them to me. I asked her what she would like to get for them, and she told me that she "wasn't in the business of selling guns", and that if I had an interest in them, I could have them. I thanked her profusely. I will probably end up going to do some handy work at her house as a thank you. Obviously, the guns are worth more than what I paid for them, but I don't know what current market value is. I am not interested in selling them. I know that the WWII dated practice rifle grenade is worth about $100-$125, but that is all I know. Any information from knowledgeable individuals would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Marshall


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Joe Hinson
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Re: WTK: Value on WWII Rifles - Photos inside

Post by Joe Hinson » Tue May 26, 2009 9:10 pm

Be ready to do about $2000.00 worth of handy work for her, maybe more counting the rare 'nade launchers.. The Mark 1 Springfield is a desirable '03 model even with it having been rebarreled. About $700.00
The '03 grenade launcher is darn expensive, yer right about the price on the practice round.
The carbine is about $800.00 + and the carbine 'nade launcher is a rare puppy as well.

Nice score.....I hope you do go do something for her. :)
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Re: WTK: Value on WWII Rifles - Photos inside

Post by AZ Jeff » Tue May 26, 2009 9:29 pm

Ironically, the grenade launchers represent nearly as much as the rifles... The last M8 carbine launchers I saw were $800.

An S'G' (Saginaw Grand Rapids) carbine represents the rarest production contract when you discount the unfullfilled Irwin-Pederson production. I restored one a few years ago and sold it for $1200. If your's is all matching you're in good shape. Even if it isn't, it's worth plenty as parts.

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Re: WTK: Value on WWII Rifles - Photos inside

Post by BillyClanton » Wed May 27, 2009 12:42 am

Yup, you hit the jackpot on this one. My two favorite rifles. Thats an early Carbine with the early rear sight, hi-wood top cover. I got a Saginaw Carbine and an 03A3 Springfield, but no grenade launchers.
Yeah, I think something really nice for that lady is called for, like, maybe, Paint her house :wink: :mrgreen:
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Re: WTK: Value on WWII Rifles - Photos inside

Post by Joe Hinson » Wed May 27, 2009 5:27 am

I placed the carbine's value as low because of the rebarreled condition......unless Inland made barrels for Saginaws....
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Re: WTK: Value on WWII Rifles - Photos inside

Post by Raymond Smith » Wed May 27, 2009 8:21 am

Wow, maybe I should go check my attic. Nice original addition to any collection.

The grenade launchers are quite rare, especially the carbine one.
I do think Underwood made barrels for Saginaw Grand Rapids Facility (Saginaw S'G'), and I will check my references later. This carbine was made near the end of production for Saginaw, so it is possible that they used some different manufacturer barrels to complete the contract. (last was 3,651,xxx) It is pretty unusual to find a rebarreled carbine. All US carbine ammunition was non-corrosive, unlike the M2 Ball ammunition for the Garand. Since the round was also lower powered than the Garand, the barrels simply did not wear out as fast, so they rarely needed replacement. This carbine has all the early features, and looks very original to me, even the stock matches. I would be surprised if the Inland is not the original barrel, need to check the barrel date to the manufacture date. Some good books out there, and you can google for much more specific information. Untouched original examples like this could be worth well over $1,800, especially if all the parts and barrel are correct. You really shoud get an expert to take a look at it. These carbines are quite a study, and to find a nice original like this one appears to be is truly good luck.

The 03 looks to have been arsenal refinished (FJA=Inspectors Initials(Colonel FJ Atwell), RA= Remington stock), as I think it would have a blued finish originally, and the barrel date is wrong. Probably manufactured around 1919. First time I have ever seen an 03 grenade launcher outside of a book, so I assume they are very rare. I would guess about $700 value or so.
Check out this website http://home.att.net/~vishooter/m1903.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for lots of additional information.

Just a guess on the grenade launcheers, about 250 to 300 each, someone more knowledgeable here might be able to better help on this.

You must have some really good Karma to fall into a find like this.
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Re: WTK: Value on WWII Rifles - Photos inside

Post by Outsider » Wed May 27, 2009 9:45 am

Inland did sell barrels to Pederson and after Saginaw took over the contract they started disassembleing unaccepted Pederson guns and using the acceptable parts in the production of their guns. So it could very likely be an original gun. I think Raymond is the closest so far to the actual value of the carbine.

PS I'll swap my Saginaw S"G" for that one! :D
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Re: WTK: Value on WWII Rifles - Photos inside

Post by Dodgeman1941 » Wed May 27, 2009 10:22 am

Thecarbine could be original. If S'G' didn't mfr their own barrels {I'll have to check in my book} they would have participated in the free barrel program where when you needed barrels you were shipped a batch out of the pool of who ever had them available. The last 03 I saw with a Pedderson divice slot was fetching $2500. The holy grail of all of this is the carbine grenade launcher. Buddy, you hit the lotto!!!!

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Re: WTK: Value on WWII Rifles - Photos inside

Post by wreckless » Wed May 27, 2009 7:20 pm

The M1903 Springfield Grenade Launcher is a rare piece. When the show up on the market they move fast. They go for at least $700. Great piece, all it is missing is the rubber butt recoil pad on the stock.
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Re: WTK: Value on WWII Rifles - Photos inside

Post by mustang » Thu May 28, 2009 3:46 am

The Springfield has the cut on the receiver to accept the Peterson device,,,you dont see too many any more. Also a rubber butt pad was for a sniper rifle,,not because it can fire a grenade.
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Re: WTK: Value on WWII Rifles - Photos inside

Post by wreckless » Thu May 28, 2009 3:51 am

Sorry to disagree but the rubber recoil pad was designed because the stocks would split when the rifle grenade was fired on hard or rocky soil. The rifle grenade was fired like a mortar with the butt stock on the ground and the rifle pointed at an angle at the intended target. Grenadiers did not fire "from the shoulder".
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Re: WTK: Value on WWII Rifles - Photos inside

Post by Raymond Smith » Thu May 28, 2009 6:40 am

I have never fired a rifle grenade, but from all the manuals I have seen, it was normal practice to fire from the shoulder unless using the M7 auxilary cartridge (vitamin pill). How else could you aim it using the sight installed on the side of the barrel? I am sure that is what the level was for, but then why the peep sight? Has anyone here actually fired one?

The other poster was right about the 03 grenade launcher prices, someone on this site was advertising reproductions for almost $300 so I would not be surprised to see an original go for at least twice that.

I don't suppose that the lady you bought this from had a big crate in her garage too? Maybe marked GPW or MB?
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Re: WTK: Value on WWII Rifles - Photos inside

Post by Joe Hinson » Thu May 28, 2009 10:21 am

They were first designed to be fired fron the shoulder and a recoil pad and launcher were furnished ( I have seen it done in combat footage) but that method was usually dropped by the GI's in combat as you had to stand up and brace against the recoil, exposing yourself to enemy fire. Once the soldiers got good at knowing where the grenade was going they usually fired it like a mortar, kneeling. There are plenty of cheap grenade launcher sights out there NOS because they were never attached to the rifle.

Oh and if you didn't catch the drift, he didn't buy the rifles they were given to him.... :shock:

Training in the "mortar" position:
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Re: WTK: Value on WWII Rifles - Photos inside

Post by Steve Webb » Thu May 28, 2009 2:39 pm

Boy what a nice find.
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Re: WTK: Value on WWII Rifles - Photos inside

Post by Mike McCrea » Thu May 28, 2009 5:53 pm

Hi, Your Carbine is made by saginaw S'G' ( saginaw)
Serial number 3,250,020 -- 3,651,519 May 1943 to Feb 1944
These saginaws could be found with barrels marked Saginaw S'G', Underwood, Inland Div, or Buffalo Arms so I believe this carbine is right as rain. Check right in front of the rear sight on the right hand side..there should be a little line staking it in..NO big punch like in front of the Adj. sights. This rifle is worth $1500 easy, without the grenade launcher. Great find..congrats
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