DD registration, regulation, discussion and questions

[SGT Fish]

They only sell through "bigdaddyunlimited" now I believe. But even before then their website wasn't great.

V1tactical sells the same receivers for a few hundred less and reliably delivers

[Kim Sievert]

Argument........
Would not a home made breach ring, stamped with your ID & s/n, per the rules for homemade receivers, with .22 rimfire barrel screwed in, with a butt stock attached, be considered a legally home made rifle ?
Yes
Would not a home made breach ring, stamped with your ID & s/n, per the rules for homemade receivers, with 75mm barrel screwed in, with a butt stock attached, be considered a legally made rifle.
Hell no, it is a DD,,, from having a screwed in rifled barrel, with a bore over 1/2 inch.

NOT a Gray Zone,,,
Would not a home made breach ring, stamped with your ID & s/n, per the rules for homemade receivers, with 10 gauge shot gun smooth bore barrel screwed in, with a butt stock attached, be considered a legally made shotgun.
Most likely, the smooth bore barrel makes a difference.
I was corrected by DB (in the next post) that a 10 ga. shotgun cartridge rifled barrel is not a DD

As far as I know, unless you live in a communist state like California, you are still allowed to make a title 1 firearm (non DD, non NFA), for your own use, without needing a Uncle Sam wand wave or a state's DOJ, wave of a wand.

YMMV as I am not a lawyer, I'm just regurgitating what I have heard, from DD guys / DD manufactures.

[Dangerous Bob]

Argument........
Would not a home made breach ring, stamped with your ID & s/n, per the rules for homemade receivers, with .22 rimfire barrel screwed in, with a butt stock attached, be considered a legally home made rifle ?
Yes
Would not a home made breach ring, stamped with your ID & s/n, per the rules for homemade receivers, with 75mm barrel screwed in, with a butt stock attached, be considered a legally made rifle.
Hell no, it is a DD,,, from having a screwed in rifled barrel, with a bore over 1/2 inch.

Gray Zone,,,
Would not a home made breach ring, stamped with your ID & s/n, per the rules for homemade receivers, with 10 gauge shot gun smooth bore barrel screwed in, with a butt stock attached, be considered a legally made shotgun.
Most likely, the smooth bore barrel makes a difference.

As far as I know, unless you live in a communist state like California, you are still allowed to make a title 1 firearm (non DD, non NFA), for your own use, without needing a Uncle Sam wand wave or a state's DOJ, wave of a wand.

YMMV as I am not a lawyer, I'm just regurgitating what I have heard, from DD guys / DD manufactures.

Why would a riffled 10ga barrel make any difference

[Kim Sievert]

DB said

Why would a rifled 10ga barrel make any difference

My mistake,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 10 ga shotgun shell cartridge, rifled shotgun barrels are not DD's
Because, if you can have a 12 gauge shotgun shell cartridge chambered fully rifled shotgun barrel, you should be able to have a 10 gauge shotgun shell chambered fully rifled shotgun barrel.

[A.Love]

As a thought experiment, would a breechring with a smoothbore 37mm barrel, chambered for the same 37mm flare cases that the non DD m203s get sold with be interpreted as a DD or not?

[SGT Fish]

It would sell as a title one firearm if not a DD. Even an m203 with a 37mm barrel is still title 1 and needs to go through and ffl.

The ones that brownells sold that are not transferred as firearms cannot accept a 40mm barrel, so they are not a firearm receiver.

Putting a 37mm flare barrel in it does not disqualify it from being a firearm, it would need to be designed from the ground up to be a flare launcher

[leadfarmer]

I concur, the NFA handbook states that some large bore items are exempt because they are designed to be a flare/pyrotechnic device (paraphrased).

So in my personal opinion, I would consider a genuine flare launcher or a exact reproduction to be in one catagory and anything home made with a bore over 1/2" to be a DD.

I also am not sure you can attach a 10ga barrel to anything and call it a non-DD.

I believe shotguns are exempt from large bore DD status because of their "sporting purpose". If you're building something that is obviously not for ducks and such, then I am thinking you're in DD territory.

[Austringer]

What about a punt gun as used in commercial duck hunting from the early to middle of last century. It's muzzle loading and generally around 1.5 gauge but not a DD.

https://youtu.be/n7FeeamC4qk

[Kim Sievert]

More arguments
Some M203 Replicas, are 37mm and are Title 1 firearms.
Some are not title 1 firearms, I have no idea why.
They are not sporting weapons.
They are capable of firing flares and projectiles.
They fire a cartridge.

So I would think, a newly manufactured cannon barrel, specifically chambered for that 37mm case, would be legal to screw into a receiver.
The same would be true, I believe, if a newly manufacture barrel, was made in 10ga.
Granted, you would be on the radar for having a receiver capable of being a DD, but not in trouble until there is constructive possession DD (Fed defined), for having a +.50 bore barrel near by.

But, if you had a receiver, with the original barrel, screwed into a receiver and capable of chambering an original +.50 bore round.
Mr Fed would say, the intent was DD

Your intent of what your going to do, as the Feds would see it, decides your future.

Side note..........
A British "Boys" rifle, chambered in the original caliber, called the .55 "Boys" is a DD (over .50 bore)
A British "Boys" rifle, rebarreled to .50 BMG, is not a DD, it is a title 1 firearm. (even if the receiver is capable of becoming a DD)

Read discription, not auction header, for this M203 37mm launcher.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/906469330

[Austringer]

Guilty of Pre-crime

[SGT Fish]

More arguments
Some M203 Replicas, are 37mm and are Title 1 firearms.
Some are not title 1 firearms, I have no idea why.
They are not sporting weapons.
They are capable of firing flares and projectiles.
They fire a cartridge.

I kinda already mentioned this, but will again to clear it up.

If it is a real m203 receiver that can accept a 40mm barrel, it is considered a firearm and the receiver alone is title1, even with a 37mm barrel installed.

Brownells/LMT made a run of 37mm m203 clones that use a custom barrel and cannot mount a 40mm barrel. These are not considered firearms as they are exempt as signaling devices, just like 12ga flare pistols at Walmart.

[SGT Fish]

Also, one of my form1's for a 40mm grenade launchers has "sporting purposes" in the reason for making this firearm.

Therefore, according to the letter of the law, the form1 is not necessary and is some kind of curiosity oxymoron of a paper. That is not the ATFs opinion of it though. But the law is very clear about it and even says you can rebuild DDs for sporting purposes and it's no longer a DD. Hunting is not the only sport.

[Austringer]

Hunting squirrels, aka tree rats, would be fun with 40mm HE/Frag, just gotta make sure they are far enough away and no branches are in the way. I can't remember the arming distance of the 40mm low pressure round but I thought it was not that far.

Speaking of having fun hunting tree rats, try a suppressed American 180. Chasing them through the trees and hiting behind them is more fun than actually hitting them and when you do, it generally ruins the meat. Most we hit had 4-6 impacts. My hawk didn't mind the mess, it was all good to him.

[Kim Sievert]

Since target shooting, has been consided a "sporting purpose", anything using a cartridge, that burns powder and expells a projectile, that is shootable at a target, is "registerable" per say,,,,,, if that is the only hang up to becoming registered.
LOL to selling that definition, to the alphabet lettered, Fed / State organizations.