Pack Howitzer firing lock

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Pack75howitzer
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Pack Howitzer firing lock

Post by Pack75howitzer » Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:15 am

I have a few items. Firing lock and some other items. Breech block, extractors. Firing lock is $600.00 plus freight ( flat rate box)


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Bill H.
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Re: Pack Howitzer firing lock

Post by Bill H. » Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:25 am

Pack, are these items ATF controlled? If so, are the properly demilled per ATF guidelines? TIA
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Re: Pack Howitzer firing lock

Post by Pack75howitzer » Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:16 am

Bill,
the ATF regulates 1 part of every fire arm, the frame of a pistol, the receiver of a rifle, the right side plate of a box style machine gun (us 50 and 30’s) along with the breech ring of artillery pieces. The regulated part contains the manufacturers serial number. It is possible to own every part to build an artillery piece without registration except the breech ring.

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Re: Pack Howitzer firing lock

Post by mbatvburg » Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:29 am

Pm sent
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Re: Pack Howitzer firing lock

Post by SGT Fish » Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:33 am

ATF doesn't control gun parts. Just receivers

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Re: Pack Howitzer firing lock

Post by Bill H. » Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:17 am

Thank you Pack. I am aware of ATF rules and laws. I just want to make sure these parts are legal to own since your description was not as complete for such items as we would like. We've run into sales posts listing items that were controlled parts but nothing was said to that effect. Thanks
Bill H.

"Each shall seek his own kind, in other words, a bird may love a fish but where would they build a home together?" Tevye, Fiddler on the Roof

1952 Dunbar Kapple M100
1953 Willys M38A1
1962 AMC M422A1
1965 Stevens M416B1 X 2
1967 Kaiser M715

2 Timothy 3:1-5

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Re: Pack Howitzer firing lock

Post by Bill H. » Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:18 am

mbatvburg wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:29 am
Pm sent
He is not able to receive PMs yet.
Bill H.

"Each shall seek his own kind, in other words, a bird may love a fish but where would they build a home together?" Tevye, Fiddler on the Roof

1952 Dunbar Kapple M100
1953 Willys M38A1
1962 AMC M422A1
1965 Stevens M416B1 X 2
1967 Kaiser M715

2 Timothy 3:1-5

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Re: Pack Howitzer firing lock

Post by nickd » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:09 am

Thanks for the clarification Bill.
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M102 105 mm Howitzer
75mm pack Howitzer
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Re: Pack Howitzer firing lock

Post by W. Winget » Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:49 am

WAIT WHAT?
Since when is owning a Breech Ring controlled by ATF?
The rule was if you had a ring, and a barrel it needed to be registered, or the parts not readily accessible in separate locations and controlled by someone else, i.e. not your brother or such.
Have never in 40 years heard that you cannot "own" all the parts, and have to have them registered, nor that ATF "Controls" anything related to DD's.
You can build one after registering the piece desired to be built, after fingerprints, forms, TAX and background is confirmed, but you cannot have all the pieces in your "possession" or build it before registering.

You can openly sell a breechring to anyone without transferring it unless it's a registered DD item (even then you can sell it at any point, as it's just a loss of $200, the new purchaser would have to register it if they were intending on creating a DD)
If I took apart my PAK 38, (it would be stupid) sold the breech ring to one person, the barrel to another, the breech to another ATF wouldn't care, or have any concern as it wasn't a transfer rather a destruction of a DD and they would await until whomever bought the pieces to 'apply' and pay taxes again for a new registration. The rules for rifle and MG receivers are a different case and should not be confused with DD pieces.

So when did this change?
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Re: Pack Howitzer firing lock

Post by Pack75howitzer » Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:46 pm

mbatvburg
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Re: Pack Howitzer firing lock

Post by Pack75howitzer » Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:58 pm

Thank you WWfor your clarification on this issue!
I’m sure no one wants that knock on the door with tough questions to answer
Are you looking for parts?
,

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Re: Pack Howitzer firing lock

Post by W. Winget » Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:52 pm

I'm not the big $ guy, bills to pay, kid entering college, but if the prices are reasonable I can make arrangements.
One day I'll get a US 75mm pack, just have other pokers in the fire like 1918 truck parts from New Zealand right now.
V/R W. Winget
Looking for 1918 Standard B 'Liberty' truck parts

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Re: Pack Howitzer firing lock

Post by SGT Fish » Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:01 pm

Pack75 is correct that the breech ring is considered the "receiver" by the ATF and should transfer just as any other firearm receiver.

Whether or not that happens regularly, or the ATF would ever notice, is another matter.

Same with a 60mm or 81mm mortar cup, or my m203 frame. It's a title 1 firearm according to the ATF unless it's been properly demilled. I'm my state we don't require a transfer or FFL for private sales, but if it was across state lines then it would need to go through a regular old FFL just like any stripped AR15 lower receiver

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Re: Pack Howitzer firing lock

Post by W. Winget » Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:20 pm

Can't be correct, can't have it both ways...
A DD Device registered with ATF can't be given to another individual without the background and transfer unless it's in a non- operational (demilled) state, which disassembly at Ordnance level is considered demilled unless you maintain all the component in the same location/owners control.
Some exceptions of receivers like the 40mm gun have crossover regulations as they suddenly consider it a MG because it fires more than one round automatically, even though it's technically a DD as it's over .50Cal.
Also inheriting DD's has their own set of transfer guideline

Pointless to discuss here, if someone had a 75mm Breechring I sure wouldn't mind picking it up, there is a process to follow to register a DD before assembling the parts or machining the components, so it's obvious they are not controlled by ATF before being registered...

Just like the %80 receiver is not a weapon, if they change the laws to make it one, then the logical potential would be that every machinist with a block of material may eventually have the "capability" of making a weapon and must be registered as well.
Politics of fools.
V/R W. Winget
Looking for 1918 Standard B 'Liberty' truck parts

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Re: Pack Howitzer firing lock

Post by SGT Fish » Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:36 pm

You are mixing up a title 1 and title 2 weapon.

A breach ring without a barrel is not a DD. Simply because it does not meet the definition of a DD. It does not have a barrel over 50 cal. Yet it is still a firearms receiver. Once a barrel is installed it becomes a DD and is subject to the NFA. Without the barrel it is a title 1 firearm receiver, just like a stripped ar15 lower. No 80% nonsense to think about.

Same with a 60mm mortar cup. Or an m203 receiver. Just because it is only a DD when the barrel is installed, doesn't mean it isn't still a firearm receiver by itself.

Just because it isn't NFA, doesn't mean it isnt still regulated by the ATF as a title 1 firearm. I don't know how to explain this any better.


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