CCKW Cargo Bed Rust Repair

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mudflap
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CCKW Cargo Bed Rust Repair

Post by mudflap » Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:15 pm

Over the last several years, I have noticed some serious rust slowly creeping out from behind the stake pockets. The stake pockets appear to have been replaced at some point in the past, and the surrounding areas exhibit signs of previous repair. So, one would think that given the usage the truck sees in its "retirement", rust would not be a problem, but alas, such is not the case.

Before 01 Lo.jpg

As can be seen in the above image, the stake pocket has been attached by MIG welding - which almost certainly was not used in the original bed fabrication. Also, there are patches welded to the inside of the bed - directly behind each stake pocket.

Before 02 Lo.jpg

To see what sins lie behind the patch, I cut it out using a die grinder with an abrasive cutoff wheel.

Before 03 Lo.jpg

Yikes! :o I was surprised to see some pretty serious rust. Obviously, the previous repair was mainly cosmetic, and did not really address the root cause of the problem.

The rust was simply covered up, allowing it to continue to spread over time until it ultimately popped out from behind its concealment. The only way to thoroughly fix the problem is to cut out and replace the rusted metal. And, unfortunately, the only way to do that is to remove the stake pockets. I would have liked to remove them in a manner that would allow reuse - however this proved to be impractical (later I was glad I replaced them). So out came the Sawzall and die grinder, and off came the stake pockets.

Before 04 Lo.jpg

Removing the other stake pockets revealed various states of rust at each location, along with an even more critical opinion of the previous repair.

Note in the next pic, there is actually MIG wire attached to rust perforated metal. In essence, an attempt was made to weld the patch directly to the rust. :roll:

Not particularly good practice.

Before 05 Lo.jpg


Repair starts next. Stay tuned....

Best Regards....


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Re: CCKW Cargo Bed Rust Repair

Post by mudflap » Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:43 pm

Repair starts with cutting out the rust - until the point is reached where a patch can be welded to relatively clean solid metal.

First the cut was laid out using blue machinist's dye. Then, a die grinder with an abrasive cutoff wheel along with a small air powered reciprocating saw were used to cut the hole. A Dremel tool with a small grinding wheel also helped to clean up the tight spaces.

One of the toughest parts is removing the part of the bed side wall that is welded to the bed floor. This takes a lot of patience and work with a grinder, in order to get down to the clean bed sheet metal.

Repair 01 Lo.jpg

Next, a patch is fabricated and fitted from 0.100" steel sheet. The patch is then tack welded into place.

Repair 02 Lo.jpg

On a large flat surface, there is always the concern of warpage, which is why it pays to go slow and keep moving around in order to avoid too much localized heating. Eventually, the tack welds are connected to form a continuous bead. Fortunately, at 0.100", the material is relatively thick, and can take a fair amount of heat. The joint is also planished periodically with a hammer and dolly block to remove some of the stress buildup caused by the weld cooling and shrinking.

After welding, the joint is ground flat and rough sanded. Final metal finishing will come later, but as it is, the patch is pretty close to being done.

Repair 03 Lo.jpg
Repair 04 Lo.jpg

Wash, rinse, repeat for the other stake pocket locations. The pic below shows a sampling of some of the rusty metal that was cut out.

Repair 05 Lo.jpg

Next, its over to my friend John's place to bend up some new stake pockets.

Best Regards....

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Re: CCKW Cargo Bed Rust Repair

Post by forestry4evr » Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:26 am

Nice write up and repair. Looks like someone before you took the contractor "can't see it from my house" approach to the repair. I had to to the same repair on a G506. It is a considerable amount of work! The stake pockets have many surfaces that were never painted right from the factory. Are you planning to paint the surface with some weld through paint prior to welding in new pockets?
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Re: CCKW Cargo Bed Rust Repair

Post by ragnar » Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:17 am

These trucks were built to serve a purpose, move material and troops to win a war. They were not meant to last forever. There are many spots on the CCKW and other military vehicles where bare metal is welded together with no rust prevention applied. Just look at the door panels on the open cab truck. There is always rust at the bottom of the door panel where the floor meets at the side panel with the rust starting behind the re-enforcement ribs. I have spent a good bit of time grinding out spot welds to separate these parts and putting primer where it never was. I leave a small spot of weldable primer (Bloxide), about the size of a Nickle, and spot or plug weld the pieces back together. If I could post pictures, I would post the pics of some of this work but I have never been successful in these picture posting attempts. I have not reached the bed of the truck yet but am sure that I will have to do the same work on the stake pockets. I am trying to redesign this truck to last for a couple more generations.

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Re: CCKW Cargo Bed Rust Repair

Post by mudflap » Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:28 am

Hi Foresestry4ever, Ragnar,

Thanks for the input.

You are right, Ragnar, rust proofing was not high on the list of considerations when this generation of vehicles was built. Just ask any DUKW owner. I'm sure the original designers never even dreamed (or cared) that their products might still be on the road 75+ years later.

I was thinking about using one of those weld-thru primer products, but I don't have any experience with them. Do they work well by themselves, or do they need some type of topcoat to keep them moisture proof?

I was planning on welding the stake pockets in place using a continuous bead along the bottom, then plug welding them on the side flanges. However, that stake pocket to bed wall interface is a challenge - rust wise. While the spot (or plug) welds attach the stake pocket flanges to the bed wall, they are far from a continuous weld - leaving a large amount of exposed open seam.

My plan was to find some type of sprayer to coat the inside area with a rust converter via the hole for the stake. The goal is to try to coat the inside surfaces, and also get the converter to wick into that interface between the stake pocket and the bed. I have had pretty good experience with this stuff in the past. It forms a phosphate coating that is fairly resistant to rust, even when left unpainted. Plus, the truck is stored inside, so its not continuously exposed to the elements.

I know I'm probably overthinking this to some degree. I was even considering fabricating the stake pockets out of 304 stainless - however my buddy with the sheet metal brake talked me down from that as it is much more difficult to form. In any case, the stake pocket is made from 0.060" steel and the bed wall is 0.100". So, it will easily last for my lifetime. And, BTW, I will (hopefully) remember to drill a drain hole in the repair before I weld on the stake pocket. :)

Best Regards....

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Re: CCKW Cargo Bed Rust Repair

Post by 70th Division » Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:15 am

Hello Mudflap ,

Great work right there !!


I really like seeing posts dealing with patching rust holes with new metal !!

I wonder if a spot welder can attach the pocket in an easy way.
I have one, and greatly appreciate what it can do !!
If you have one , or could borrow one, that would be a time saver, and will look just like the original installation. Just get one that has long enough tongs on it , to reach the length of the pocket. You can get longer tongs to attach to the spot welder if needed.

I wonder if Flex Seal spray on sealant will work inside the pockets , but not sure what clearance is needed for the wood stakes ??

Keep up your great work !!

Looking forward to updates as you progress 😃


Best Regards
Ray

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Re: CCKW Cargo Bed Rust Repair

Post by forestry4evr » Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:29 am

Certainly no vehicle manufacturer has ever designed a product that was to last 80+ years. I read somewhere that our old relics had an expected war lifespan of 4 months. Our WW2 trucks are truly out of the norm to still be in existence. That's part of the "coolness" of having one though isn't it?

I found that plug welding from the outside resulted in difficulty finishing the weld area. If repeated, I would drill and fill the plugs from inside the bed. A spot welder would certainly make everything look more original, if one were available. As for the painting of blind interior areas, they would most likely last another 80 years without any paint if the truck was kept indoors and only driven on sunny days! We do tend to go "above and beyond" with restorations, but it feels good to do a job that will last beyond our tenure.
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Re: CCKW Cargo Bed Rust Repair

Post by ragnar » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:03 am

Mudflap
I use a weld through primer called Bloxide. I am sure that there are others out there but this was what was available at the local welding supply place that my friend's shop uses. I put a uniform coating of epoxy primer in the area while putting small nickel size pieces of painter's tape on the spots that will receive welds. I then go back, remove the tape, and put the weld through primer on these bare spots. I clamp the two pieces together, as tightly as I can, that are to be welded and commence to plug welding or spot welding the pieces together. These parts were originally spot welded so I do my best to replicate the original process. I often plug weld from both sides. I have experienced no issues with this process other than it is time consuming. I finish the work with some minor bondo work. I would estimate that around 85% or better of the bondo is sanded away. If I could post photos, I would provide some examples of the work. Send me an email and I will send you some before, during, and after pics of my process. Not knocking anyone else or their work. This is just what I do. It works for me. Rust is my enemy.

Cheers

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Re: CCKW Cargo Bed Rust Repair

Post by mudflap » Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:29 pm

Had some other priorities to attend to over the last several days.

Finally back to the project at hand :)

First and foremost, thanks to all for comments and suggestions!

Ragnar, I sent you a PM with my email information. If you could send a few pics my way I would greatly appreciate it.

To fabricate the new stake pockets, I started with some 0.060" sheet steel. I started to use one of the old pockets as a template, but kept running into difficulties trying to get my measurements to come out right. I finally realized, that the stake pockets I took off were way out of whack dimensionally. For example, one was nearly 3/16" narrower at the top that at the bottom. The welds that held the inner reinforcement to the outer piece were not done particularly well either. Many split and fell apart when I was cutting them out. Obviously, whoever made them was not having a good day when the were being fabricated.

So, after laying out correct (and square) dimensions, I went to work on the brake.

Stake Pockets 01.jpg

Stake Pockets 02.jpg

I bent of both the outside pocket (the part that you see), and the inner reinforcement (the part inside, that helps hold the stake up straight).

Next, the inner reinforcement gets welded to the outer piece.

Stake Pockets 03.jpg

Then its time to do some fitting. The radius where the side of the bed is formed, and transitions into a horizontal "sill", needs to be accommodated. Also, that "sill" slopes down around 2 degrees, so the bottom of the pocket has to be cut at a slight angle to fit tightly.

Stake Pockets 04.jpg

Still need to perform a little more metal finishing and work on the pocket flanges to get them to fit tightly against the side of the bed wall.

For final installation, I plan to weld up the pocket to bed interface at the sill, also attach it to the very top of the bed where the sheet metal rolls over and down - at the outside top edge of the stake pocket.

As for the middle, I wish that I had a spot welder for this. I would imagine that it would have to be a pretty big one, to be able to reach that area.

As suggested, I am going to try plug welding it in a few places. I'll practice on some spare sheet metal to see which direction (from inside or from outside ) gives the best results.

All for now.

Best Regards....

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Re: CCKW Cargo Bed Rust Repair

Post by D.R.H. » Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:47 pm

Nice work MudFlap!! That's the way we love to see work done. Ya know, you just might have some extra business if you were to take up the "new stake pocket mfg." thing. The "other" guy certainly isn't tryna make any more. Know what I'm sayin'? :wink:
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Thank You BOTH for always being there.

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Re: CCKW Cargo Bed Rust Repair

Post by mudflap » Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:36 pm

Thanks DRH! Thanks all, for the input and tips!!! Thanks also Ragnar, for the photos of your repair work. Very nice!

I was still on the fence WRT to the best method of installing the stake pockets. Originally they were spot welded along the side flanges, and then either gas or stick welded at the bottom and top.

I don't have access to a spot welder, and even if I did it would have to be a pretty big one to reach around the top of the bed. Plus, I have a feeling that even if I did have one, setting it up to reliably weld two different thicknesses of steel would take some doing.

Was also thinking about plug welding, but the one thought that kept coming to mind, was that interface between the stake pocket flange and the bed wall. Since it is exposed, what would be the best way to keep water out of there - which could wick in, and start the rust process all over again.

I was talking about this to the body shop technology instructor at the school where I teach part time. He suggested this stuff:

https://crestauto.com/shop/dual-cartrid ... el-bonder/

It is a high strength panel bonding epoxy. It has a reasonably high temperature tolerance, so you can weld near it. It also has small glass beads inside, so that when it is clamped, all of the epoxy is not forced out of the joint. I figured that this might be a good way to kill two birds with one stone: Secure the pocket to the bed, and seal the interface.

So I decided to apply this new technology to this old application. After cleaning the area thoroughly, I begged and borrowed every welding clamp that I could find. Then, a heavy bead was run on each flange and the stake pocket was clamped to the bed wall.

Stake Pocket Installation 01.jpg
I let it cure overnight, then took the clamps off. The attachment seemed very solid. Next, I TIG welded the perimeter of the bottom, and also put a 3/8" weld on the top of each flange, along with a short bead under overhang of the top rail. I clamped damp rags in the immediate area of the adhesive to keep it cool.

Easy-peasy - definitely on there for keeps. One down, two to go.

Stake Pocket Installation 02.jpg

Also, did one more repair - this time, on the inner bed wall at the end of the bed. This area, like the others, had just been covered over with sheet metal - no attempt to address the rust. The stake pocket here seemed OK, so I made the repair without removing it. After cleanup, I am going to work some of that panel bonder into the joint between the flange and the bed wall. Note the two holes with the non standard threaded nut plate concealed behind the repair metal. Will cover the details on this in the next post.

Stake Pocket Installation 03.jpg
Stake Pocket Installation 04.jpg
Stake Pocket Installation 05.jpg

Best Regards...

p.s. As an experiment, glued a couple pieces of sheet metal together at the same time I bonded the stake pocket on the the bed. Have not been able to pull them a part yet. Pretty strong stuff.

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Re: CCKW Cargo Bed Rust Repair

Post by mudflap » Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:36 pm

So, my stake pocket repair saga is close to wrapping up. With metal finishing complete, its time to send the job over to the body shop. Except, I don't have a body shop, so paint work gets done in the same location as does sheet metal repair: my garage.

As may have been noticed in previous close-ups of the stake pockets, there was quite a bit of pitted metal on the horizontal surfaces of the bed wall. I media blasted these areas, filled in the pits with body filler, then sanded the area smooth.

The next step was two coats of primer, with some finish sanding in between.

Paint 01.jpg

After that came some final cleanup with scotch-brite pad, then two coats of GCI 319.

Paint 02.jpg

Stake pocket attachments came out pretty nice. The TIG welds are solid - which is important because in addition to holding the troop seat stakes, the stake pockets also provide lateral support to the bed side wall.

Paint 03.jpg

Next was a move outside to do some cleanup. That media blasting worked well, but in spite of covering everything up, that media just gets EVERYWHERE. :( Took several hours to vacuum all of it out of various nooks and crannies.

Paint 04.jpg

Finally, some road time on a beautiful September day. Even stopped at a nearby school (it was Saturday) for a formal portrait.

Paint 05.jpg

Best Regards...

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Re: CCKW Cargo Bed Rust Repair

Post by mudflap » Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:12 pm

Almost forgot!! One other thing...

Wanted to quickly mention the reason for the nut plates in between the bed wall and the inner stake pocket reinforcement.

One of the things that surprise me about the CCKW cargo truck is the total lack of any tiedowns inside the bed. Maybe in use, they were always just fully loaded, so stuff did not slide around? I would think that any partially loaded situation, however, would have stuff moving all over the place. This is what typically happens to me. By the time I get to my destination, my stuff is everywhere.

To help with this, a D-ring loop is attached to the bed wall at each stake pocket location. They are secure by two 1/4-20 round head bolts that thread into the nut plates. Note, these are not designed for use with something like a chain binder, but mainly just for bungee cords - although they do have an 800 lb. rating.

Tie Downs 00.jpg
Tie Downs 00.jpg (11.44 KiB) Viewed 1180 times

Tie Downs 01.jpg


I have been buying ammo boxes shown in the pics, below. I believe these are actually Navy ammo boxes, but once a couple coats of OD are applied over the top of their gray finish, nobody is the wiser. What I especially like about them is that they are short enough in both length and height, as to not interfere with the troop seats. I keep stuff like tow straps, extra lube, wood blocks, rags, etc. in them. The bungees keep them in position when driving. 8)

Tie Downs 02.jpg
Tie Downs 03.jpg

Even though these were added with the stake pockets removed, it is possible to drill two holes thru the bed wall, slide a threaded nut plate down the stake pocket opening and epoxy it in place. This allows retrofitting an existing bed.

They are also fairly unobtrusive when not in use.

In any case, is great not to have to climb into the bed and reposition stuff after every stop.

Best Regards..

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Re: CCKW Cargo Bed Rust Repair

Post by kw573 » Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:13 pm

Nice job!
Man, that epoxy is expensive stuff!

A bit late, but for another stake pocket repair, see below.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=157023&start=240

Enjoy.
Sam.
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mudflap
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Re: CCKW Cargo Bed Rust Repair

Post by mudflap » Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:23 pm

Hi Sam,

Thx for the link. Looks like you "plug" welded yours onto the bed ? I was considering that, but after practicing a little with my TIG welder, I wasn't able to get really good results. Maybe if I had a MIG welder, I would have been successful.

I know the "list" price is high on the website (around $50), but when I went there to purchase some (the vendor is about 45 min from my house) the price was about $40. Not sure why it is listed so high on their site. After one side of the truck, I still have over half left, so it goes a long way.

There is, BTW, also a special gun used with those. I didn't have one, but with a little improvising using deep well sockets and a vise, I was able to get the stuff out of the tubes. Fortunately, I could bring the stake pockets to the adhesive in the vise. If I had to take the adhesive to the vehicle, it would have been a different story.

Am also experimenting with some rust converter as well, to coat the insides of the stake pockets. I too, like that stuff and have had good luck with it.

Lastly, I greatly enjoyed your posts chronicling your recent trip. I'm sure it must be a very satisfying feeling having put all your hard work on The Glorifier to the test, and completed the trip with no hiccups. Well done, sir !

TTYL,

Bob


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