A 969 rebuild from Downunder.

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kw573
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Re: A 969 rebuild from Downunder.

Post by kw573 » Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:59 am

Hi all,
I am posting primarily to bump this thread for another member.

Otherwise, I have been working away from home for a couple of months now, and apart from some repairs to the towing 'A' frame, have not touched the Glorifier at all.

Hmmmm . . . ., I'm getting withdrawal symptoms. I'll have to fix that.

Stay tuned.
Have a nice week.

Sam.
1942 Script GPW (Daily driver).
MB-T trailer.
Diamond T 969. ('The Glorifier')
Diamond T 969, rusty, complete, for sale.
Kenworth M1A1 Heavy Wrecker x 2.
M2A1 white HT. ('Clarrie')
Light Recovery Trailer (Ford?).
3ton GS (Blitz) Trailer.
150gal water tanker trailer.
Air compressor trailer, 100c.f.m.


kw573
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Re: A 969 rebuild from Downunder.

Post by kw573 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:18 pm

Good morning fellow covid captives,

Luckily, I am only little affected by the pandemic, being in a low population area in a low impacted state.

Also, working away from home has really slowed the MV activities. But . . .

Some years ago, I badly damaged my 969 'A' frame tow bar. Took a while to work out how it happened, basically I had unwittingly way overloaded it.

So I brought it with me to repair if I had the chance. I have managed to make some progress on it and here is a bit of what has been achieved thus far.

I need to fabricate an broken cast bracket. So, using 3/8" M.S. plate, I cut and drilled the three plates . . . . .

Image

Image


. . . . and jigged them up. The spacer was turned up to the correct length of 1 1/2"/38mm on a lathe.

Image


Then I could tack them together. Even then, I had some slight distortion issues. This is caused by the uneven cooling of the materials after welding. So I massaged it with a hammer.

Image


Unusually, I had to do the welding with an MMAW (stick) welder. I was having a good welding day!

Image

Image


It was time for some grinding to shape and clean the job, then a test fit. Not finished, but looking good.

Image


Curiously, the pins, sort of big rivets, had an alarmingly small peined end. Hmmm, so that is not very strong to hold them in place under load. But when I tried to remove them, my concerns evaporated, as they are a medium drive fit at the 'shop' end. Couldn't remove them with a hammer, I had to press them out!! Cool!

So far, so good,

Have a nice weekend.

Sam.
1942 Script GPW (Daily driver).
MB-T trailer.
Diamond T 969. ('The Glorifier')
Diamond T 969, rusty, complete, for sale.
Kenworth M1A1 Heavy Wrecker x 2.
M2A1 white HT. ('Clarrie')
Light Recovery Trailer (Ford?).
3ton GS (Blitz) Trailer.
150gal water tanker trailer.
Air compressor trailer, 100c.f.m.

mudflap
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Re: A 969 rebuild from Downunder.

Post by mudflap » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:09 pm

One of the things I've missed most throughout this pandemic thing are the regular "kw573" updates on this site.

Glad to see your are not only healthy, Sam, but still working your metal magic. :)

Enjoyed your post, as always.

Take care,

Bob

kw573
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Re: A 969 rebuild from Downunder.

Post by kw573 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:54 pm

Thanks for that.

Oh, dear, the pressure is on!! :lol:

Sam.
1942 Script GPW (Daily driver).
MB-T trailer.
Diamond T 969. ('The Glorifier')
Diamond T 969, rusty, complete, for sale.
Kenworth M1A1 Heavy Wrecker x 2.
M2A1 white HT. ('Clarrie')
Light Recovery Trailer (Ford?).
3ton GS (Blitz) Trailer.
150gal water tanker trailer.
Air compressor trailer, 100c.f.m.

kw573
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Posts: 1232
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:48 pm
Location: Near Bundaberg, Australia.

Re: A 969 rebuild from Downunder.

Post by kw573 » Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:32 pm

I updated the contents list.

Nothing new to report at this stage.

Sam.
1942 Script GPW (Daily driver).
MB-T trailer.
Diamond T 969. ('The Glorifier')
Diamond T 969, rusty, complete, for sale.
Kenworth M1A1 Heavy Wrecker x 2.
M2A1 white HT. ('Clarrie')
Light Recovery Trailer (Ford?).
3ton GS (Blitz) Trailer.
150gal water tanker trailer.
Air compressor trailer, 100c.f.m.

kw573
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Posts: 1232
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:48 pm
Location: Near Bundaberg, Australia.

Re: A 969 rebuild from Downunder.

Post by kw573 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:15 am

Hi all,

The weather is warming up, good for my energy, so good for jobs around the house and workshop.

I needed to use use the car trailer, but my recently acquired lathe was in it. As the heavy wrecker is out of commission at the moment, I used the Glorifier as a crane truck. That was not fun, I learned a few things, the difficult way.

The picture below is the lathe lifted off the trailer. The first problem noticed was that the slew has a mind of its' own. Not really, but it felt like it. The position of the car trailer was such that the Glorifier was slightly leaning toward the trailer on sloping ground. This meant that as soon as I unpinned the booms, the lower one was keen to get to its' lowest position. I managed to man-handle it to above the lathe to sling it and lift the 1.2 ton machine. This included luffing the boom upwards quite a way, using a shifter on the luffing winch ratcheted shaft, 1/3 turn at a time. I have no clue how the designers thought the original winch hand crank would be used. Near impossible with the outrigger leg present. Anyway, it was slow and demanded presence of mind to avoid pinching my fingers on the rear body with the spanner. With the extra weight of lifting, it again moved on its' own. Inconvenient, not dangerous as the friction in the boom pivots kept things slow.

Image


Using the Triton, I moved the trailer well out of the way and then hitched the LRT to it. Then started the fun and games of reversing the LRT in under the lathe moderately accurately. This is because I had only vertical movement of crane available to me. Reversing the LRT is a true art that requires considerable patience and spatial awareness. And a good clutch. Backward and forwards, backwards and forwards, over and over. It jack-knifes very quickly and but straightens out only slowly! I put it down to the very short drawbar. Hmmm......

Image


But I got there. Putting the lathe down was fairly straightforward but packing up wasn't. Lowering the boom back down to be pinned to the other boom was slow and needed even more presence of mind than previously. To lower the boom, the ratchet needs to be manually released then re-engaged when the shifter has almost hit something. Preferably without your finger in the way. Move the shifter around the square drive shaft and repeat. I think it would be near impossible with a load on the boom, high risk of dropping the whole lot and causing damage to man and machine.

The next annoyance was pinning the booms back together. The brackets tend to rotate in use but are a bit stiff to realign for connecting again. I intend to have a soft hammer available next time, it'll be much easier.

Then when tightening the stowed cables from the drivers side controls, the passengers side winch seemed slow to disengage when the control handle was released. That could be a real problem at the wrong time, it'll be getting checked out sometime.

A crane truck it ain't!!

Enjoy.
Sam.
1942 Script GPW (Daily driver).
MB-T trailer.
Diamond T 969. ('The Glorifier')
Diamond T 969, rusty, complete, for sale.
Kenworth M1A1 Heavy Wrecker x 2.
M2A1 white HT. ('Clarrie')
Light Recovery Trailer (Ford?).
3ton GS (Blitz) Trailer.
150gal water tanker trailer.
Air compressor trailer, 100c.f.m.

Jeff Jensen
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Location: Excelsior, Minnesota

Re: A 969 rebuild from Downunder.

Post by Jeff Jensen » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:17 am

Hi Sam
I know what you are talking about. Before I had a Ward. all I had was the Diamond,It was hard to work with, I made blocks to go between springs and stops, That stopped most of the tipping so you could move with the load but every thing else was manual.
It was way better than what I had before,A frames,chain hoist,You know the drill.
Any ways I think the Diamond's main roll was recovery and towing, I have used mine for both and it works well for that as long as it is not real heavy like a 981 Diamond or a Ward. wrong end comes off the ground.
Now the Ward.,I towed a truck last week,Was going to us the Ward., How do you tow with one ?, The tow bar hooks up the same way but how do you lift the the vehical to be towed,Does that "V" thing on the bottom of the boom have some thing to do with it ?
Hey it snowed 8 inchs here yesterday ,YEH.
Jeff

kw573
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Re: A 969 rebuild from Downunder.

Post by kw573 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:54 am

Hello and Merry Christmas to you,

Thanks for the comments, Jeff. When I set up some towing sometime, I'll look at those questions.

Life has been busy, as usual.
I am taking the Glorifier to a local weekend event and wanted to fix a few things first. Today's' issue is the free wheeling plates on the front axle rubbing on the axle shaft ends. The rub marks can be seen below.

Image


It was fairly easy to cut the extension with a wafer disk. Yes, this was one of the times I removed the guard for access, done with caution.

Image


It then came apart with a bit of gentle persuasion.

Image


After moving the extension outwards 4mm, it was tack welded then welded in its' new place, . . . . .

Image


. . . test fitted, painted, and fitted.

Image


The test run of about 100kms will be in a few days time.
After the oil leak issues on the trip to Corowa in March, I have changed the gearbox and transfer case oils to a much heavier grade oil (ISO 150) and will be paying attention to how it behaves on the test run. The oil that came out was not pretty, it was darker than I expected, I suspect it was burnt, or close to it.
We'll see.

Have a nice week.

Sam.
1942 Script GPW (Daily driver).
MB-T trailer.
Diamond T 969. ('The Glorifier')
Diamond T 969, rusty, complete, for sale.
Kenworth M1A1 Heavy Wrecker x 2.
M2A1 white HT. ('Clarrie')
Light Recovery Trailer (Ford?).
3ton GS (Blitz) Trailer.
150gal water tanker trailer.
Air compressor trailer, 100c.f.m.

Stephen Davis
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Location: NEW ZEALAND
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Re: A 969 rebuild from Downunder.

Post by Stephen Davis » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:26 pm

Happy new year Sam. How did the trip go with the newly modified free wheeling hubs.
Also, hope this letter finds you & yours well.
Stephen.
UNIMOG DOWN UNDER
1953 one ton GS trailer
1961 Mighty Mite M422A1
1986 Unimog 1300L
1971 Serries Skippy Land Rover, Son's drive.

kw573
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Re: A 969 rebuild from Downunder.

Post by kw573 » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:54 am

Good morning Stephen,
Good morning all,

The days are long, but hot and humid, robbing me of much of my energy. But I do have a little to report.

Despite being the same, more or less, one free wheeling plate clears and the other is still rubbing. I haven't had a closer look yet.

Regarding the oil overflow problem in the gear box, I did a test drive of around 80kms at (my) highway speed. Despite being a cool day with a lot of light rain, the box still became too hot to hold my hand on and still pumped some oil out the gear shift tower. Grrr!
The heat = friction = poor lubrication, it seems to me.
I reviewed the TM. Ha! "When all else fails, read the instructions"! I have slightly overfilled the box, by 1/2". Using general practice, I had filled to the filler plug, but the TM says 1/2" below that when cold and level when hot (Who fills a hot box?!?). I can't see that 1/2" extra will make that much difference, but I will drop the level via the reasonably controllable PTO drain bolt and test it.

That still doesn't explain the heat. I was talking to a Landcruiser mechanic who mentioned that their gear cases can be too hot to hold in normal operation. What experience do any of you have in this area of mechanics?
Two other suggestions have been made. Use a zinc additive. Still got to look into that. The other is to use a much lighter oil, say ATF or one of the multi use tractor gearbox/diff/hydraulic oils. There are anecdotal stories of ATF being used in even very big gear cases with good success. The long held idea that higher power transmissions need a heavier oil may not be necessarily always correct!
I also wonder if the box has too much power going through it. Originally around 110HP, but now 185HP. Still, it is a very big box.

The next problem is that the front tail shaft has been hitting the crossmember under the clutch. This is as a result of tipping the front axle 4 1/3 degrees for caster adjustment. But the truck also bottomed out a couple of time when I hit culverts a bit fast. So I am wondering if the springs have also sagged a bit.
So, could some of you measure the distance from the top of the front spring immediately behind the U Bolts seat, up to the chassis when your DT 969/968/972 is on level ground and unloaded, please? Also, is the shackle vertical or leaning forward or rearward?

I have run out of time now, but can get some pictures later, if that helps.

First day of school for 2021 today, so I have a big day.

Have a nice day.

Sam.
1942 Script GPW (Daily driver).
MB-T trailer.
Diamond T 969. ('The Glorifier')
Diamond T 969, rusty, complete, for sale.
Kenworth M1A1 Heavy Wrecker x 2.
M2A1 white HT. ('Clarrie')
Light Recovery Trailer (Ford?).
3ton GS (Blitz) Trailer.
150gal water tanker trailer.
Air compressor trailer, 100c.f.m.

kw573
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Posts: 1232
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:48 pm
Location: Near Bundaberg, Australia.

Re: A 969 rebuild from Downunder.

Post by kw573 » Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:58 pm

Good morning fellow MV tragics,

Yesterday, I took the Glorifier out of the shed and drove it around to the workshop apron, about 150m. I also ran it at about 1300rpm for a couple of minutes as the battery seemed a bit slow. After shutting it down, I crawled under to drain a few liters from the gear box.

The first thing I noticed was not a lot of oil leaks from the box. Is that due to the heavier oil? Dunno. Next, I removed the level plug and oil ran out, aerated oil. Hmm. Then pulled a 3/8" bolt from the PTO to drain the oil into a 1 liter jug. The oil was clearly aerated. No, not the white water-contaminated colour, but definitely aerated. So after only a few minutes of operation, the oil has become aerated throughout. I drained the level to a bit under 1/2" below the filler hole.
Then it was time for a run down the highway at sustained full speed (75-80kph) to see what would happen. I traveled around 60kms round trip and although there was oil on top of the gear shift ball, it didn't get anywhere near overflowing. And too hot to hold my hand on the shift tower for more than a second.
This morning, I checked the 2 1/2 (aerated) liters I drained out. No more air bubbles in the oil. So I measured its' volume = 2250ml. This means that the aeration increased the volume by a significant 10%. Next is to check the 'rested' oil level.
I don't recall having come across aeration (foaming) as a problem in transmissions before. Is it even a problem?
Anyone with experience wish to comment, please?

That is all for now.

Sam.
1942 Script GPW (Daily driver).
MB-T trailer.
Diamond T 969. ('The Glorifier')
Diamond T 969, rusty, complete, for sale.
Kenworth M1A1 Heavy Wrecker x 2.
M2A1 white HT. ('Clarrie')
Light Recovery Trailer (Ford?).
3ton GS (Blitz) Trailer.
150gal water tanker trailer.
Air compressor trailer, 100c.f.m.

mudflap
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Posts: 356
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Re: A 969 rebuild from Downunder.

Post by mudflap » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:00 pm

Hi Sam,

Keep forgetting that it is summer down there for you guys. Hope that your are enjoying some nice warm weather. Still have snow on the ground up here, with more on the way tonight.

A couple of quick questions:

What gear oil (brand/type/viscosity) are you currently running ?

You are still running the stock transmission, right? (326-VO-21?)

With regards to temperature, do you have access to any instrumentation that can measure the actual temperature of either the oil (best) or even the outside case temperature? (next best) A thermocouple in the drain or fill plug that is immersed in the GO would be the best, but even if you have access to one of those point and shoot IR temp guns, it can at least get you into the ball park with respect to what temperatures your transmission is actually seeing.

Some Thoughts and Observations:

First, I would not beat yourself up regarding the oil fill level. As you said, that 1/2" is probably not going to be a huge deal. I could not find any specs on thermal expansion characteristics for GO, but for engine oil it is listed as 0.0007/deg C. So, for a transmission that holds 12 quarts, and a 30 deg C temp rise, you are only picking up about 0.25 qt. - or 8 oz.

I have never measured trans temps on my CCKW, but I have been underneath feeling around after a drive, and the trans is pretty warm. Not enough to burn my hand maybe, but not particularly comfortable, either.

Some foaming is normal. The countershaft gears are partially immersed in gear oil, and part of their job is actually to act as sort of an oil pump and throw GO around the the inside of the transmission in order to lubricate the internal components. There is an interesting video on youtube that shows what happens to GO in a rear axle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-yG3D3JBRs

However, spitting oil up out of the shifter does seem to be cause for concern. Where is the vent located on that transmission? Are you running the production shift boot, also ?

One other thing to consider, is maybe not so much the added power of your new engine, but the increased speed that your truck is now capable of. TM9-811 shows a top speed of 40 mph. It sounds like now, with your upgraded powertrain, you can easily cruise around 50 mph. Since the countershaft is driven directly from the input shaft whenever you are underway, its speed will be directly proportional to engine speed - meaning its throwing even more oil around.

Higher transmission speeds also seem likely to me to cause higher transmission oil temperatures. And, I would also bet that the relationship is not linear - i.e. the temp increase is larger with a smaller speed increase.

Have you considered trying a full synthetic GO? Many performance types claim that they see lower transmission or rear axle temperatures after switching to full synthetics. You don't always have to go to the heaviest viscosity, either. I would try maybe a 75W90. BTW, do you know if your trans has any brass or bronze components - like in the 5th (overdrive) gear? If so, then you may need to do some checking with regards to compatibility with newer GL-5 GOs. (I could not find a freebie download of TM9-1811, or I would have done some looking.) :)

Lastly, I personally would not, under ANY circumstances, consider trying to run ATF, or anything other than gear oil, unless you have a spare transmission handy. ATF does not have the extreme pressure characteristics of modern gear oils. Manual transmissions that run those types of lubricants are designed to from the ground up.

Just my $0.02

Take Care!

Best Regards,

Bob

hummermark
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Re: A 969 rebuild from Downunder.

Post by hummermark » Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:19 am

Hi the top leaf spring surface behind the U bolt pad on front axle drivers side to under side of chassis rail on my dimond tee wreaker on level ground unloaded is 180 mm.(open cab model with original petrol engine fitted)
U bolt leans towards the front of wreaker by approximately 1 to 2 degrees looks all most vertical had to put digital angle gauge on to tell it was not vertical.
Hope that is of some help.
M1030M1 JP8 diesel
2008 M1113 Humvee
Cushman 53
M10 Achilles
M274 A2 Mule
Matchless g3l
1944 WLA
M1030 KLR 650
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kw573
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Re: A 969 rebuild from Downunder.

Post by kw573 » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:16 am

Good morning,
Work has well and truly ramped up and is taking most of my time and energy for the next 2 months.

Thanks for the reply Bob.
I originally put a 80w/90 GO in the original stock gearbox. That is the oil I went to Corowa with (3700kms). I now know that it was 1/2" overfilled. At 75kph on 12.00x20 wheels (approx. red line on the original tacho), it was pumping oil out the top when powering up hills. I replaced that oil with ISO150 because I had some on hand. An earthmoving contractor friend uses much heavier GO in his vintage trucks with good results, so, worth a try. That is what is currently in the box.
Temperature wise, no, but I am thinking that a point and shoot temp tool will be a good investment.
The gearbox does not have a vent, per se. I think it relies on the non-sealing gearshift ball.
Regarding the speed, yes, 50mph is do-able, but is right on max. engine (and tacho) revs. This is only about 200rpm over the original red-line revs. So it is a significant jump in speed, but a much lesser jump in rpm (because of the oversize tyres).
I think the next step is a straight 90 grade oil as per TM, perhaps with a zinc or Lucas -type additive.
Although I don't know, I'd be surprised if there is no 'yellow metals' in the box somewhere. Can anyone who has stripped one down enlighten us here?
Of course, if I drove at 60kpm/40mph, all this would probably go away.

Hammermark,
Thanks for the info. I'll definitely be comparing that to my truck when I can.
Could a few others also measure their trucks for me please? I understand it is winter in the northern hemisphere.
And I have found an old school spring works that will re-set my springs and harden/tempter them correctly if I decide to.


Have a nice day.

Sam.
1942 Script GPW (Daily driver).
MB-T trailer.
Diamond T 969. ('The Glorifier')
Diamond T 969, rusty, complete, for sale.
Kenworth M1A1 Heavy Wrecker x 2.
M2A1 white HT. ('Clarrie')
Light Recovery Trailer (Ford?).
3ton GS (Blitz) Trailer.
150gal water tanker trailer.
Air compressor trailer, 100c.f.m.

Jeff Jensen
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Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:26 pm
Location: Excelsior, Minnesota

Re: A 969 rebuild from Downunder.

Post by Jeff Jensen » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:41 pm

Hi Sam
I measure 4-15/16 to 5 inch both sides top of U bolts to frame, original RXC ,closed cab 969A.
Jeff


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