Nuthin but MORE tranny issues

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Nuthin but MORE tranny issues

Post by wc56daveyboy » Fri May 17, 2019 3:55 am

You all probably read my earlier transmission issues I'm having with my wc12 1/2 ton.

Thought I would update

Well here's the background and where I am at today:

I bought a completly rebuilt 1/2 ton tranny from MWM.
I didn't buy a top shifter assembly at that time because I had an unknown condition 1/2 ton assembly complete sitting around and thought I would just use that top shifter, as is.

So it was a shot in the dark anyway.
But after having owned a few 1/2 tons, I know these granny's are pretty rugged and forgiving.
Never had these kinds of issue before.

Well anyway, after installing this new tranny with the used unknown condition top shifter assembly, I was experiencing a grinding or better described as a "growling" or "GGGGGRRRRRR" noise.
Pushing in the clutch, the noises went away
Let out clutch, in nuetral, and sounds came back

All opinions said replace the throw out bearing

I did that. And I inspected what I could while tranny was out. Greased the input shaft to pilot bearing to be sure.

Now.. I still have the noise (or "A" noise) but it's a lot less in volume by FAR. But it's still there. And maybe it' can't really be described as a "grinding" any more.

Now I have this slight "chirping" or "whirrrring" noise when I let out clutch, in any gear I'm in. Obviously most noticible in neutral as the other truck noises don't mask any sounds when sitting still.

So I'm at a loss at this point. I know the shifter needs rebuilding. It's so "loosey-goosey" and I'm experiencing
( Sometimes) after returning the tranny to nuetral position after being in reverse, I can't find any forward gear.

Talking to John at midwest he thought the shifter tower assembly needs rebuilding.
I would agree with him.

I didn't mention the "chirping" sound because I was really concerned about the assembly wear and gear selection issue.

Tell me if I might be on track on this or not:

My mind is thinking that if this assy was so worn that maybe, just maybe the forks were letting the selected gears move about and just barely touch one another while spinning and that's the faint "chirping" I'm hearing?

Any other thoughts on why the slight "chirping" now?

Same scenario. Push in clutch, no noises. Let out clutch and I hear the "chirping"

Funny thing though. I noticed this.

Starting up the truck in the morning, when it's stone cold, the tranny does NOT make the noise at all. Nothing! At least for a few seconds

See video here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kTmIynYCz ... e=youtu.be

As it warms up, the chirping begins. Sometimes won't happen for a good while IF I never touch the clutch pedal. Start it in nuetral. Let run. No noise.

For a few minutes anyway.

Play with the clutch, move around gears here and there, return to nuetral and let out clutch.

"Chirping" returns.

See video after a short drive:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you ... -wx3QA08VY


Arghhh. And the level of the chirping can be more or less, it's not constant.

Is this a top shifter fork sloppiness situation?
Maybe the gears are slighting touching when the trucks in motion ?

Or something else entirely?

I can tell you I'm sick of spending money and effort on this truck only to be what seems like going backwards. Instead of bettering my truck I seem to be making it less drivable
Last edited by wc56daveyboy on Fri May 17, 2019 10:51 am, edited 3 times in total.


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Re: Nuthin but MORE tranny issues

Post by W. Winget » Fri May 17, 2019 4:07 am

Chirping would indicate metal on metal without lube. The inside of the transmissions getting a lot of lube as it goes round and round, the throwout bearing can chirp (Had my GPW do it for a while) then magically go away when some grease hits the right spot inside the bearing. I would not tear it down if you put a new throwout bearing in, rather drive the heck out of it for a while and see if it increases or fades away.
They were not Swiss watches, so wear-in may be required if a rebuild was just finished.
Just a thought
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Re: Nuthin but MORE tranny issues

Post by mdainsd » Fri May 17, 2019 6:31 am

I am thinking that a worn out shift tower may be causing some of this noise, (qualified with maybe). Have you been able to select all five gears? I ask, because if you have had the tower off of the transmission they are one b(*&ch to get back on right. The gears must be in exactly the right position, the shift tower forks need to be in the exact position and that darn reverse shift fork slider sometimes needs a piece of fishing line around it to hold it right where it needs to be while you lower the cover into place.
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Re: Nuthin but MORE tranny issues

Post by wc56daveyboy » Fri May 17, 2019 7:15 am

Oh yea, I know what you mean about lining everything up.

Well, I can certainly go thru all four forward gears as well as reverse with no problems.

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Re: Nuthin but MORE tranny issues

Post by wc56daveyboy » Fri May 17, 2019 11:00 am

I revised my first post to include some videos I took today.

First one right at initial startup of the truck.
None of those noises heard

Second video after a short run, everything warmed up

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Re: Nuthin but MORE tranny issues

Post by artificer » Fri May 17, 2019 2:28 pm

Both videos don't work here.

Knowing what is happening may help honing in on the issue:
Non Synchonized....
1. Engine running clutch out, in N, the input shaft, counter gear & reverse idler are turning.
Synchronized....
1a. Engine running clutch out, in N, the input shaft, counter gear & reverse idler plus all gears with synchro are turning on the mainshaft. These gears 'should' have the selector forks in their rotating grooves/slots.
Non Synchonized....& Synchronized....
2. Engine running clutch in, in N, nothing in the transmission should be turning.
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Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Nuthin but MORE tranny issues

Post by wc56daveyboy » Fri May 17, 2019 3:13 pm

Well it's a non sycronized transmission.

So that narrows it down a bit.

Not much happening there.

What's more confusing is when the truck is cold,
NO NOISE

Once it warms up, with a quick ride,
The shattering or chirping or whatever comes back.

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Re: Nuthin but MORE tranny issues

Post by mdainsd » Fri May 17, 2019 6:34 pm

got a mechanics stethescope? Use it and narrow down where the noise is coming from.
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Re: Nuthin but MORE tranny issues

Post by W. Winget » Sat May 18, 2019 5:20 am

When it's cold tolerances of the metal are increased, when it warms up rotating parts are now in intermittent contact without lube and chirping (as frequently head on a Lathe with no oil on the cutter)
It could be as simple as a clip or seal that is not perfectly 90 degrees to the housing or shaft, or perhaps placed too close to each other during assembly.
Not sure what oil you are using in it, but perhaps a change to some 'stickier' lube (more expensive but cheaper than tearing into it) or additive will coat the parts a little better and prevent the chirp.
It may also go away after less than 20 miles of driving....
Me: I would drive it a few weeks / months, (depending on how much you drive it) then drain the oil check for any material and refill with clean oil. If the chirp is there and no debris is found it's character building. If the chirp is still there and there is debris in the oil it's time to rip into their rebuild, or ask them about a replacement.
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Re: Nuthin but MORE tranny issues

Post by wc56daveyboy » Sat May 18, 2019 5:37 am

Winget:

Were YOU able to view the you-tube videos?

Others cannot.

Anyway. All sound advice.

I'll try a little "break in time" first.
I gotta only suspect that this rebuilt transmission more than likely was build up using gears from multiple cases. (I.e. Used the best gears available)

Of course I didn't build it, but I can only assume this is how it went

I'll also get some Lucas type gear oil additive and try that, after a bit of run time.
Not much else except that top shifter.

I remember the flat faces of the shifter forks having a bit of wear to them.
This shifter could easily be past it's serviceable life span, needing the forks replaced as well.

I just don't know

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Re: Nuthin but MORE tranny issues

Post by wc56daveyboy » Sat May 18, 2019 5:40 am

On another note, how much debris is acceptable in a new rebuild?

I already drained the original 85/90 weight and replaced with straight 140 weight when this fiasco first started.

I noticed there as a bit of very fine ferrous shavings as well as some small amount of brass.
Not big, not filings. More like small fine sand particle sized. No, smaller.

Normal wear, considering this gearbox may bee assembled with multiple other gears from many different cases?

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Re: Nuthin but MORE tranny issues

Post by wc56daveyboy » Sat May 18, 2019 5:45 am

John wrote:
Non Synchonized....& Synchronized....
2. Engine running clutch in, in N, nothing in the transmission should be turning.
True. Except the front input shaft and roller bearing, right?

That was one of my original "suspects":

that roller bearing.

But I lubed it with grease when I had the tranny out for the T/O bearing replacement.
So that can't be it. It looked brand new, and the input shaft and other gears looked great as well

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Re: Nuthin but MORE tranny issues

Post by artificer » Sat May 18, 2019 5:55 am

Except the front input shaft and roller bearing, right?
Engine running, clutch disengaged & in N....NO the clutch driven plate & input shaft are @ rest.

Also be aware some transmissions reverse idler gear have different offset either end & can be installed A about T.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
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Re: Nuthin but MORE tranny issues

Post by zepher11 » Sat May 18, 2019 6:07 am

wc56daveyboy wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:40 am
On another note, how much debris is acceptable in a new rebuild?

I already drained the original 85/90 weight and replaced with straight 140 weight when this fiasco first started.

I noticed there as a bit of very fine ferrous shavings as well as some small amount of brass.
Not big, not filings. More like small fine sand particle sized. No, smaller.

Normal wear, considering this gearbox may bee assembled with multiple other gears from many different cases?
I rebuilt my Command Car transmission myself from gears from several original boxes. Changed the oil after about 200 miles about three weeks ago. Checked for debris in the oil, and on the drain plug, and I couldn't detect any metal flakes or shavings. I was surprised at how clean it was. I refilled with the Lucas oil additive. That stuff is sticky! Spilled a few drops on the concrete, and it isn't easy to clean up. Seems a bit quieter overall now with the Lucas added.

Also: When I click on the videos it will go to youtube and it says the video is not available.... Might need to make it public?
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Re: Nuthin but MORE tranny issues

Post by wc56daveyboy » Sat May 18, 2019 7:29 am



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