Fuel pump function...or lack thereof

1945 - 196*, Willys CJ series, questions, discussions, regarding anything related to the post war jeep.®
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Wolfman
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Re: Fuel pump function...or lack thereof

Post by Wolfman » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:39 am

Has been a while. Had to go back and refresh my memory. Can I assume ( there's that word ) you pressurized the cooling system ??
If so, yes, the cooling system should be full of anti freeze, or water will work.
Normal place for a crack to form is at the valve seat. Just brushing the inside of the port with soapy water may not catch it. Maybe a spray bottle with soapy water, sprayed well into the port, to get the seat area.
Also a possibility, if there is a crack, it may be small and only leak when the engine is warm. This complicates things.
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Re: Fuel pump function...or lack thereof

Post by Joe Gopan » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:40 am

And look for rust deposits on the Spark Plugs, that's quicker to do and fairly accurate.
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Re: Fuel pump function...or lack thereof

Post by tcrozier » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:09 pm

yes sir, too long! I am ready to get back after it! I pressurized the cooling system to between 4 and 4.5 psi for about an hour this evening while I tried squirting soapy water up into the intake ports. I forgot I had a flexible bore scope for gun work and similar so I feel like I really gave it a good thorough going over like 3 times over the course of that hour or so. It was well pressurized too, I almost made the mistake of nearly twisting the rad cap off and almost made an ugly mess, only water though, when I had finished. Definitely had some pressure behind it.

I pulled all the plugs just for grins but being as new as they are, all covered in heavy black soot, from all the previous attempts whereby it would only run roughly at lots of choke, there was nothing to see that would point to any sort of oxidation.

I think I must just need to rip the bandaid off at this point, find a good new/used block and get after it or be left with only my 4runner this winter. That thought just doesn't even hold a candle to the jeep being the go to when the roads get nasty.

I would welcome your opinions gentlemen, am I making the right choice and if so maybe some links to rebuild articles? good parts suppliers, maybe even a crate engine if the price is right. I have a million questions now I am afraid.

Thank you guys for the awesome guidance and insight, I have learned a lot, and I mean A LOT!! this fall!

Thank you,
Thomas
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Re: Fuel pump function...or lack thereof

Post by Wolfman » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:26 am

One more question.
I started to read back through all this and quickly abandoned that idea. So
Did you ever change the condenser ??
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Re: Fuel pump function...or lack thereof

Post by tcrozier » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:57 am

No sir, I never did.
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Re: Fuel pump function...or lack thereof

Post by Wolfman » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:14 am

Hint ! Hint ! Might be worth a shot.
Wouldn't that be something to find, that was all that was wrong !!
As for the anti freeze in the intake manifold. I would run it some more and see if that one comes back. If it was a major leak, after the testing you did, it would have showed up.
Just keep an eye on it.
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Re: Fuel pump function...or lack thereof

Post by tcrozier » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:10 pm

Yes sir, sounds like a great idea to me! I am so willing to invest a little bit more time and gasket cost to do that!! Beats the crap out of the alternative!

Thank you!
Thomas
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Re: Fuel pump function...or lack thereof

Post by tcrozier » Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:31 pm

I should have my parts, condenser and gasket for manifold, tomorrow. Just in time for the weekend!
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Re: Fuel pump function...or lack thereof

Post by tcrozier » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:16 pm

Quick question please, if I may. I didn't read this anywhere when I was originally looking for the head torque values but do I need to go back and re-torque the head bolts after a certain run in period? I am being optimistic at this point :D
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Re: Fuel pump function...or lack thereof

Post by Wolfman » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:00 am

That would be a great idea. Once a new engine is brought up to operating temperature, the head bolt/nut torque should be re-checked. 65 ft. lbs.
Also depends on the type head gasket used. The OEM "wafer" style gasket will yield when they get hot the first time and need re-torqued. Should be checked again at about 500 miles. The newer "One Piece" Perma-Torque gaskets usually hold, but not a bad idea to re-check any way.
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Re: Fuel pump function...or lack thereof

Post by tcrozier » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:10 pm

Sorry it took me so long guys, I just got around to getting a condenser last week, and quite frankly I was pretty bummed out that I was looking at the inevitable (or what I thought was) engine re-build. Low and behold...it started and ran. Mike, I believe it you was you that hinted me into doing that before anything else, holy crap, thank you for the urging!

Now for the stupid stuff...which I will readily 'fess up to, you guys can probably laugh at it and someone could learn from my mistakes, win-win!! lol

I came out yesterday morning and, using Scoutpilot's timing w/o a timing light KB article, set up to tune the engine.

Had set the timing mark, checked the points blah blah blah per the article, and this is noteworthy, checked the coolant level, looked full to me, more to come on that :-(. Set the idle stop, fuel screw and hooked up the vacuum and dwell/tach meter. Fired it up to let it warm up, seemed to get a bit too warm a little too fast. eghhh, whatever, started going thru the rest of the instructions. And by the way my vacuum is higher and more consistent than ever before, was able to get a fairly steady number of roughly 20 while I was twisting on the distributor before locking it down and moving to the other side of the engine. While I had my hands on the distributor, adjusting it back just a little to lose the 100 rpms the radiator cap gasket unseated and blew a fairly good head of steam, scared the crap out of me :-|. Went to the carb side and took a quick glance at the temp gauge and was up around 220. I quickly tried to run through the rest of the fuel and idle stops adjustments so I could shut it down but was striking out. I not only a had jeep that was running too hot, and knew it was likely affecting what I was trying to do, but also, dang it, realized I had left the choke pulled out about an 1" or so, double crap. I blew the tuning setup entirely and knew it at that point. Shut it down to regroup and see what was causing the over temp situation and let it cool off. I don't know how I missed it but the cooling system was a little under half full as I ended adding another 5 qts of coolant. I never could get the top hose full after another quick run up to nearly 200 degrees, no water in the upper hose so took the thermostat housing off, after doing a little reading, because I had installed it like the one I took off, and that was not right. I had no idea there was a thermostat retainer in there, I had replaced it between the gasket and housing like I had a dozen times before in later model vehicles. Ordering a new thermostat and retainer tomorrow, I had originally picked up and put in a 190 degree (which I now know is probably not appropriate for these early engines) from NAPA but will try and get a 160 or 165 degree as that seems to be the correct temp for them.

Hopefully I did a good job of describing stupid is as stupid does w/o wearing you guys out reading an essay on it.

You guys are great and thanks for listening, but more importantly for the guidance. More to follow in a few days after my parts show up!

Thanks!
Thomas
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Re: Fuel pump function...or lack thereof

Post by artificer » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:38 pm

180*-190*F should be fine once the coolant has found it's correct level & you've stopped topping up continually.
After timing setting with a vacuum gauge, something I do recommend [as does Scoutpilot], make sure to road test & listen for pinging going up hill under load or just accelerating quickly in top gear.
Sounds like shaking marbles in a can.
If evident progressively retard slightly, until gone when road testing.
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Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Fuel pump function...or lack thereof

Post by tcrozier » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:19 pm

Thank you John, that makes sense and sounds like a good idea, I will absolutely do that later in the week when I've installed the new parts. We live in a series of ridges, finding a hill is as easy as walking out the front door! I'm sorry to ask for clarification but should I go ahead and replace the thermostat, which I stated earlier, and incorrectly, as 190 degrees (it's actually 195), with a 160? Also, if it does ping, when you say retard the spark, I take that to mean you want me to twist the distributor CW so that it fires a tad bit later? I am so sorry if my questions are infantile and makes you guys wonder how I even turn the computer on most days! :shock:
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Re: Fuel pump function...or lack thereof

Post by artificer » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:27 pm

I wouldn't, running around 190*F-200*F does absolutely nothing detrimental.
As long as the vehicle is not boiling & continually loosing coolant, it is not overheating.

Check Jeep coolant level & it should be about 2 knuckles down when cold ....that is FULL. Do not top up.

When running & hot any radiator hose squeezed that feels taught indicates the coolant system is full & not boiling.
If hot & any hose is squishy it means the radiator cap is not functioning [pressurizing the system] or coolant is low or has been lost.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Fuel pump function...or lack thereof

Post by Scoutpilot » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:43 am

I can only echo Artificer's thoughts.
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