wheel stud removal

1945 - 196*, Willys CJ series, questions, discussions, regarding anything related to the post war jeep.®
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artificer
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Re: wheel stud removal

Post by artificer » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:19 pm

Thanks....my only suggestion is better centering & larger drill bit to reduce the circumferential material thickness left & it will collapse much more easily. Glad it worked for you.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: wheel stud removal

Post by kody » Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:16 am

yeah after seeing them come out they deffinately need to be centerd and bigger holes would deffinately help
if you cant fix it with duck tape you must not be using enough!!
1942 ford gpw 9924 "duke" dod march 26
1946 willys cj2a "wyatt"
1946 willys cj2a "rusty"
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Re: wheel stud removal

Post by wallm38 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:06 pm

heat the base of them cherry red then with a brass drift and 2 pound hammer knock them out ive been doing it that way for years it works real good

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Re: wheel stud removal

Post by wallm38 » Sun May 03, 2015 5:33 pm

I went through all of that and got no where so I took the flame wrench to the base of the stud and heated it cherry red one whack of a two pounder and out they came :D

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Re: wheel stud removal

Post by artificer » Sun May 03, 2015 5:52 pm

Tell us all about how the new studs fit in the hub?
Since this thread started over 2 years ago, I put together this HOW TO on how brake stud removal can be done easily & properly....
http://jeepdraw.com/images/HOW-TO-BRAKE-STUDS.pdf
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.


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Re: wheel stud removal

Post by Joe Gopan » Sun May 03, 2015 7:07 pm

I'll stick to how factory Jeep service manual technique and and the TM's do it, it is instant and I have not had a bent hub or loose stud in over a half century of changing Jeep wheel studs.
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HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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Re: wheel stud removal

Post by artificer » Sun May 03, 2015 7:48 pm

Please tell why I &, it appears most others, don't understand how the hammer trick only works for Joel?
Joel wrote:I'll stick to how factory Jeep service manual technique and and the TM's do it, it is instant and I have not had a bent hub or loose stud in over a half century of changing Jeep wheel studs.
Just shows how few times [if any] Joel has actually done the task of replacing inside mounted brake drums with swaged wheel studs....doesn't it?
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: wheel stud removal

Post by jeeperjaffas » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:54 pm

Hello Artificer, Jeeperjaffas here. Your article Brakes 101 is excellent, thank you. How can I obtain the swage removal tool you refer to on page 11?

Many thanks

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Re: wheel stud removal

Post by artificer » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:05 pm

Not sure where you are located....McMaster Carr in the US BUT here is an easier more effective method I've used more recently with standard hand tools....http://jeepdraw.com/images/HOW-TO-BRAKE-STUDS.pdf
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: wheel stud removal

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:36 am

The original swaged instuds will drive right out, I have never had replacements that go in loose or replacements that fall out without swadging. If it will make you feel better, a prick punch can be used to upset the hub surface around the new stud.
Best buy Studs from an experienced Jeep Parts Dealer, as the choices in DORMAN, or the NAPA store are confusing to countermen due to the hundreds of studs that are listed. Best not try to pick by pawing thru a random pile.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
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Re: wheel stud removal

Post by artificer » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:38 pm

the 6-7 decade Jeep Guru wrote:The original swaged in studs will drive right out
Absolute rubbish! MISINFORMATION.
With internally mounted 'original' Jeep brake drums swaged to the hub, they do not. I don't care what the TM says & I've replaced dozens of brake drums.
Belting or pressing a swaged [expanded] stud through a smaller hub hole? C'mon, this is common sense stuff!

Frankly, I don't think someone has ever done this, thus the book quoting broken record.
Many on here may have tried this hammer trick, with costly/bad results to the relatively soft hub.
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John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: wheel stud removal

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:19 pm

The splines in the hub from the original studs remain intact. The holes in the NOS Hub flanges are a precise diameter, the hubs are also a softer material than the splines. Check the instructions for installing studs in the TM's for the MB/GPW, M-38/M-38A1 and the CJ-2A thru CJ-5. The Jeep Factory Service manual method for removing/installing the studs is to "drive" them into place. There is nothing wrong with pressing them but driving them is more effecive. Should you elect to reswage the bolt to the hub a "punch" can be used.
Check out the Army TM's for the MB thru M-38A1
Been doing it this way in Jeep shops, Army motorpools and machine shops since the 50's and have never had a problem.
The studs I drove in place in my MB back in 71 or 72 are just fine. In order to set an example, I always practice what I preach and it always works.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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Re: wheel stud removal

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:29 pm

Here's how Michael Browne does it in a previous post

by Michael Browne » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:45 pm


by elvis3006 » March 27,2012,9:49am

how does one remove the hub from the brake drum on the front axle on a GPW? is it as simple as pounding out the wheel studs? thanks
Yes Elvis it is almost as simple as that.

Ben Dover is 100% correct when he refers to the TM for the correct method for removing the studs.

TM 9-803 Rear Axle section 143 a To remove brake drum from hub, support brake drum at hub, and drive out studs

For replacement
TM 9-803 Rear Axle section 143 b Place brake drum on hub. Install new wheel studs etc etc etc

I personally prefer to cut the stud off and drill it with a 1/2" drill about 1/4" deep and then drive it out as I find it quicker and easier than removing the swaged area and then driving it out :wink: A few well placed impacts with a large mallet will do what is required. The drilled end of the stud collapses and allows it to come out easily :)

This TM is dated 1944 and I would guess about 400,00 jeeps had seen service by this time... this is the recommended approach for this task and if done correctly by trained service fitters will get a good result. I have at least 2 hubs with mixed RH & LH studs that have been replaced at some time in the past. However not all the people working on jeeps today have the same skill level and if unsure then this forum allows different methods to be put forward :roll:

I would not recommend welding any component of the brake drum or the stud as shown on the previous tech article as they are high grade steels and need special procedures to achieve safe results.

The reason pressing it apart doesn't work is to do with how steels and other metals behave when formed / or deformed at lightning speed using high speed presses. A good example is fitting a rivet to the frame of a jeep or any vehicle. If you set it with rapid, high impact force it achieves a good result.... but if you use a workshop press to squash it into place it will end up being loose.

TM's are a great place to start when you are unsure how to approach a task... but there are other ways as well. A copy of the manual is available for download from jeepdraw site :arrow:

Good luck all.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
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Re: wheel stud removal

Post by artificer » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:57 pm

Expurgated Text per Terms of Use Policy #7G
Michael wrote:....The reason pressing [or bashing] it apart doesn't work is to do with how steels and other metals behave when formed/or deformed at lightning speed using high speed presses. A good example is fitting a rivet to the frame of a jeep or any vehicle....I personally prefer to cut the stud off and drill it with a 1/2" drill about 1/4" deep and then drive it out as I find it quicker and easier than removing the swaged area and then driving it out. A few well placed impacts with a large mallet will do what is required. The drilled end of the stud collapses and allows it to come out easily.
The aforementioned is spot on & exactly how swaged brake studs were originally fitted!
It is also obvious Michael [a Machinist] had some real world practice in this area & knew these studs were not EZ to get out unless de-swaged!

Following is an actual presentation that shows exactly how to stuff up hubs removing old [non demountable] brake drums on the earlier including WW2 & CJ model Jeeps when the swage is not removed.
They do & show what they did pressing/bashing wheel studs out & achieved a crap result.
https://www.1942mb.com/article/103/G503 ... heel-Studs
Later model Jeeps have de-mountable brake drums held in place with 3 countersunk screws to the hub. So no problems there.

Any mechanic & especially a US Army trained machinist who can knock/press this swaged stud out without increasing the hub hole size must be Houdini. I have certainly never had one where the studs just pop out with a bash!
Image
Putting a new replacement stud in, after bashing through the old one, will not lock the brake drum to the hub & the stud will be loose enough to turn in the hub. Tightening the wheel nuts to torque may work, but try loosening them.
Keyboards & TM's don't always work in practice!

Being an armchair expert on CCKW's & GMC's plus most everything else military, one would expect knowledge of TM 9 801 where studs on non demountable brake drum's are recommended to be removed similarly to my earlier Jeepdraw link suggestion for MB's & GPW's:
Image
Q.E.D.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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