CJ3A Steering Question

1945 - 196*, Willys CJ series, questions, discussions, regarding anything related to the post war jeep.®
Post Reply
aparkmb43
G-Sergeant
G-Sergeant
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:43 pm

CJ3A Steering Question

Post by aparkmb43 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:59 am

Good morning. I have a question concerning my Ross steering rebuild. I have cleaned everything, replaced bearing, bushings, new worm shaft, and new sector shaft. When I reassemble and screw in the tensioner on the sector shaft I end up with a tight spot on both end of the travel. Worse when steering to the right even (I am doing this clamped on the bench so there is nothing in the drag linkage causing this. If I back out the tensioner then I get a little play on sector shaft(in and out) when in the middle of the travel. Is this normal? Is this why some guys have added the tight steer to their Ross?

User avatar
artificer
- R.A.E.M.E -
Posts: 13102
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:46 am
Location: Year round sunshine on the Gold Coast, SE QLD AU

Re: CJ3A Steering Question

Post by artificer » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:33 pm

Tight steer is not needed.
Make sure the worm is adjusted/shimmed first.
Loosen sector shaft & adjust right off.
Centre the steering box.
Turn to turn then 1/2 will be centred.
Now adjust the sector screw in so as to be firm & tighten the jam nut.

The steering box is designed so there is always a tight spot when centred, then progressive looseness either way, when off centre.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

Ben Dover
Gee Addict
Posts: 45445
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: CJ3A Steering Question

Post by Ben Dover » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:50 pm

When you establish the midpoint, the twin pins will be also at mid point on the worm shaft. If it is tight or binding when returning to center from either extremity, the adjusting screw was not adjusted exactly at the center position. It should not bind when adjusted, the adjusting screw should be turned against the sector shaft just enough to remove shaft end play without binding.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

aparkmb43
G-Sergeant
G-Sergeant
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:43 pm

Re: CJ3A Steering Question

Post by aparkmb43 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:28 pm

Thanks for the replies. I am going to ask this question and it may sound stupid but how many rotation should the steering wheel have from one end to the other. (IE 1 rotation (360 degrees) 1 1/4 rotations (450 degrees) etc.)

User avatar
artificer
- R.A.E.M.E -
Posts: 13102
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:46 am
Location: Year round sunshine on the Gold Coast, SE QLD AU

Re: CJ3A Steering Question

Post by artificer » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:52 pm

Count each 360° as 1 turn, 180° as 1/2, each 90° as 1/4 & 45°as 1/8.
1. Total turns you have divide by 2.
2. Turn back the number of turns established by dividing in 1. to get centre.
3. Ensure the steering wheel if fitted is splined to have the centre spoke to the bottom & the other 2 will be @ 10 & 2 o'clock.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.


aparkmb43
G-Sergeant
G-Sergeant
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:43 pm

Re: CJ3A Steering Question

Post by aparkmb43 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:42 am

OK in a properly assembled and correct Ross steering box, From the stop on the one side turning it to the stop in the opposite direction how many revolutions should the steering wheel make? Right now with my tensioner set on my sector shaft so there is no in and out place on the sector shaft I have about 1 1/4 turns on the steering from one end of travel to the other. Does this sound correct? Sorry if I am being a little slow on the up take.

I readjusted the tensioner and now have 2 1/3 turns of travel with only a little play in and out in the center of the travel.

Thanks again for the help

Ben Dover
Gee Addict
Posts: 45445
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: CJ3A Steering Question

Post by Ben Dover » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:55 am

Why does it need the aftermarket tensioner if you have installed all new parts? Adjust the steering without the spring loaded tensioner, use the original steering gear adjusting screw. There will always be play when the steering wheel is not at mid point.
You can actually determine mid point by the feel of the adjusting screw as it contacts the worm at mid point.
Again, the Tensioner Kit is no longer needed, it is now the problem.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

aparkmb43
G-Sergeant
G-Sergeant
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:43 pm

Re: CJ3A Steering Question

Post by aparkmb43 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:27 am

Ben,

I understand that and would agree. My issue was/is when the sector shaft is centered and tension screw is just touching I can only rotate the steering about 5/8 of a turn in either direction. I loosen the tensioner a about 1 and threads and now I can get about a full turn in either direction. If I loosen it more I can get more until the sector shaft stops on the case but leaves to much play in the sector shaft when in the center of travel. I was wondering on a properly adjusted ross steering box how many turns of the wheel from one end to the other?

Thanks

Rus Curtis
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:51 am
Location: Alabama

Re: CJ3A Steering Question

Post by Rus Curtis » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:31 am

aparkmb43 wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:59 am
Good morning. I have a question concerning my Ross steering rebuild. I have cleaned everything, replaced bearing, bushings, new worm shaft, and new sector shaft.
When I reassemble and screw in the tensioner on the sector shaft I end up with a tight spot on both end of the travel. Worse when steering to the right even (I am doing this clamped on the bench so there is nothing in the drag linkage causing this. If I back out the tensioner then I get a little play on sector shaft(in and out) when in the middle of the travel. Is this normal? Is this why some guys have added the tight steer to their Ross?
The OP stated loose in the middle and binding at the ends (to me this describes a worn cam, shaft or both). I don't remember a pronounced difference comparing the ends and center play on my new parts but that was a while back.

This thread is confusing due to some of the responses.

To answer the question, yes the tightsteer was designed to take up the slack in the center due to wear - I believe to prolong rebuilding. I've read of clearance limitations (Tightsteer sticks out pretty far where the fender may be in the way during initial installation). There are threads on the CJ2A covering all this and a website for Tightsteer.

I agree with John that a Tightsteer shouldn't be needed on a rebuild with new parts.

Terminology: @aparkmb43, are you referring to the Adjusting Screw as the tensioner vs. an actual Tightsteer that would be attached in place of the original screw?

The Shaft and Lever can be centered on the Tube and Cam on your bench test. You can either visually square it on the cam before putting the cover on or like you've done, turn end to end and then half for center - as described. Centering is important to ensure the Steering Arm is positioned correctly. Be sure to use correct lubricant - NOT grease!

aparkmb43 wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:28 pm
... how many rotation should the steering wheel have from one end to the other. (IE 1 rotation (360 degrees) 1 1/4 rotations (450 degrees) etc.)
.... I readjusted the tensioner and now have 2 1/3 turns of travel with only a little play in and out in the center of the travel.
I measured nearly 2.5 rotations on mine. What you're getting is fine. Remember, your front axle's Turning Angle Stop Screws will determine your final turn limits, end to end.
artificer wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:52 pm
Ensure the steering wheel if fitted is splined to have the centre spoke to the bottom & the other 2 will be @ 10 & 2 o'clock.
John, I'm curious if this is written guidance. Is it military specific? A "Down Under" thing? Most images from the CJ Service Manual suggest opposite, e.g. Fig 268 in the SM1002-R6. There is a thread on the CJ3A covering this,

http://www.cj3apage.com/cgi-bin/3Ayabb2 ... 529989/8#8

and it seems the consensus is inverted has improved visibility for gauges. I personally prefer it as the down angling spokes are an easy hand position when cruising.
Rus Curtis
'54 CJ-3B
T3-C

Ben Dover
Gee Addict
Posts: 45445
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: CJ3A Steering Question

Post by Ben Dover » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:57 am

TM9-803 Page 214 Paragraph 162 b. describes the orientation of the steering wheel spoke swith the vertical spoke ABOVE the steering post.
TM9-1803B Page 119 describes it installed with the vertical spoke facing down.

TM9-8015-2 for the M-38A1 describes the spoke in the vertucal facing up.

There are plenty of factory and Depot photos to refer to. The safest position is with the vertical spoke "up".That is how I was taught by Jeep and Army Instructors.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

Post Reply

Return to “CJ Technical Knowledge Base”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests