How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Quarter-ton trailer series, Wanted, USED PARTS FOR SALE NO EBAY or COMMERCIAL SALES., and Knowledge Base
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Johan WILLAERT
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Johan WILLAERT » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:52 am

Johan WILLAERT wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:11 am
Here's another one which I believe to have been made early January 1945 in the 56xxx serial# range with an USA-0825xxx range
ACM Number is 126380
Using known confirmed numbers and DoD from Original plates, I came to an estimated Ser#56433, Est DoD 1-3-45 and USA0825615 number.

Datplate and stencil from https://dataplates4u.com which I HIGHLY recommend!!


T3-56433-3Jan45.jpg
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T3-56433-USA0825615.jpg
T3-56433-USA0825615.jpg (115.54 KiB) Viewed 1535 times
MyT35[1].jpg
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MVPA#14204
Huffman D50546 (1942)
Westfield Columbia MG138969 & MG140418 (1943)
HD 42WLA31854 (1943)
Ford GPW272xxx (1945)
Bantam T3 56433(Est) (1945)
John Wood M3A4 17564 (1943)
Johnston Lawn Mower Co RL35-A 1255 (1944)
BSA Mark V* T136102 (1944)
The Liberator

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Greg hanson » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:31 am

Chuck Lutz wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:51 pm
Greg....

A fair estimate for either trailer is the best I can do as I just don't have any examples with known data plate and/or USA numbers close to your ACM numbers....

Bantam
Serial Number........16155
DOD...…………………...4/6/43
USA Number...……...0265112

MBT
Serial Number...…..42855
DOD...…………………..9/43
USA Number...……..0242618

I do occasionally get some new additions to my data base and if I happened to get one with a VERY close ACM, one that had an original data plate on it, I could improve these estimates for you quite a bit I think. As you restore them, wait to order your data plate from Robert de Ruyter and get back to me to see if I have had any solid additions, OK?

FYI, the MBT has a VERY early CAST axle on it that someone who is restoring one from that era would deeply appreciate having. I believe you could easily swap yours for one that is a SMOOTH TUBE (no welded seam).

Don't forget to check the brake drums on those trailers, unless they have been swapped out previously or have sustained some damage, they would be very good to use on your jeep as they have never been "turned". Any MB/GPW brake drum that has been turned out to the legal limit can be used on the trailer as it has no active braking system, only the handbrake.
Hi Chuck

On the MBT listed here, i found the ITM NUMBER, if it can help you to date the Willys with more precision.
ITM: 34072

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Regards Greg
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Robbmic » Sun May 12, 2019 7:30 pm

Hi Chuck, I have not been on the site in a long time. I was wondering about Willys MBT trailers. Do you what was the first serial number ? I just bought a 09/42 production MBT with a four digit serial number beginning with 50. Did they begin production in August or September of' '42. I am gathering the info to find out if you might have the USA number. Any info would help. I think this is an early production trailer.
Thanks .

Rob

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Greg hanson » Wed May 22, 2019 12:41 pm

Hi Chuck

I give one more for your data base. Can you help me for USA numbers or more ?😉

Here is a new barn find today in south of France that I bought.

Almost complete barn find BANTAM. Two problems on it. Not orignal floor and rear panel. It was open.

I think, it’s not modified by French army

1) Data Plate: It is present, as you can see on pics.
Serial numbers: 59208
Date of delivery: 1-27-45
Part list: TM1012-81
Technical manual: 101281

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2) USA Number: No rear panel 😕

3) ACM Number: American Central MFG. I will check and post it in few days.

4) Upper Shock Mount: Is it threaded and BOLTED to the frame the LOWER shock mount is threaded.

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5) The axel a straight tube.

6) Springs: There are 8 leaves in the springs
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7) Taillights & Reflectors: No taillights and reflectors

8) Taillight Mounts: Standard "L" brackets bolted to the tub.

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9) Numbers: I will Check later

10) Bolts: Check the markings (if any) on the bolt heads on the fenders or other bolts on the trailer. (A, AA, EC, BC or others or none?) check in few days

11) Unit Numbers: Most outfits did NOT mark the rear frame beneath the tub with the unit info but some did. Wet sand this area carefully also, there may be several coats of paint and several units markings! Check in few days too.

Original combats wheels
Original safety chains
Original lunette

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Original switch

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed May 22, 2019 2:12 pm

Greg...I think that one will restore itself quite nicely, but you will need to gently wet-sand the rear panel and the rear crossmember to see if there are any remnants of the USA number or unit markings. Of course, check the front LIP of the tub and the drawbars for the USA as well...you might get lucky.

The ACM number should be in the 127xxx to 129xxx range +/- .

Send me the ACM number when you find it.
I did notice the pics of the springs look like they are a collection of different leaves...that would be something to confirm and if so to replace with correct 8-leaf springs. The rest looks really VERY complete....

Please confirm that what I see on that data plate is "59298". A better pic without the shadow would help....
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947


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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Greg hanson » Wed May 22, 2019 2:16 pm

I confirm 59208 not 59298 on data plate

Chuck, read all my text :D

Chuck Lutz wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 2:12 pm
Greg...I think that one will restore itself quite nicely, but you will need to gently wet-sand the rear panel and the rear crossmember to see if there are any remnants of the USA number or unit markings. Of course, check the front LIP of the tub and the drawbars for the USA as well...you might get lucky.

The ACM number should be in the 127xxx to 129xxx range +/- .

Send me the ACM number when you find it.
I did notice the pics of the springs look like they are a collection of different leaves...that would be something to confirm and if so to replace with correct 8-leaf springs. The rest looks really VERY complete....

Please confirm that what I see on that data plate is "59298". A better pic without the shadow would help....
slowness equal accuracy, accurary equal speed !!!!!!

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Greg hanson » Thu May 23, 2019 8:50 am

:?: Chuck

Here is the ACM number under the gousset and I restaure the data plate.

I saw on the Emile Becker books that there is a mistake (maybe) on page 358 about the ACM number and year of delivery.
That say about Bantam T3 for exemple:
Serial number 60706 —— Date of Delivery 02-09-45
And ACM number: 128834 after war number

Mine ACM: 130059 date of delivery 1-27-45 and serial number 59208 (end of war but war period)

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Last edited by Greg hanson on Fri May 24, 2019 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu May 23, 2019 10:35 am

#130059 appears to be European Font.
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu May 23, 2019 11:40 am

Nice job cleaning up your original data plate on #59208....
I would give you an estimate of the USA number of "0822265" for this trailer.

Joel, the font on Greg's trailer gusset plate is original from ACM...like this one, note the serif style "1" and the "9".
ACM #129722 D. Tooley.jpg
ACM #129722 D. Tooley.jpg (68.92 KiB) Viewed 1422 times
Greg...from my data base I have found that in 1945, long after Willys had stopped making the G-529 in March of 1944 that the ACM numbers for Bantam trailers are mixed up. In addition, this was prior to the "other" 1945 mfgers of the G-529 in the US getting started building them. It makes trying to help guys with an ACM number but no data plate!

By the way, I don't have the Becker-Denzler book you have, any chance you can send me the list you referred to by email please? I would like to add their list to my list any trailers that I do not currently have!
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu May 23, 2019 11:54 am

OK, just checking. :wink:
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Greg hanson » Thu May 23, 2019 2:53 pm

Thanks Chuck

Check your email 😉
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Greg hanson » Fri May 24, 2019 3:52 am

All screw are B-C stamped

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by POKwilly » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:48 pm

Doing restoration on my tub in the backyard. I took the extra effort to reveal the ACM under the spring plate.

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Here are the numbers stamped into the frame. The ACM and the extra number stamped at the front of the trailer arm.
Hope this will reveal a bit more of its origins. I acquired it along with an M201 in France four years ago,

Image
Peter

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:12 am

The long number is a French number which does not tell us anything about the mfger or any data plate or USA number info. The ACM #92131 will be either a Bantam or Willys as it is too early for any of the other 1945 mfgers. You will need to post all the answers to the questions in this sticky to get enough info to correctly identify it and estimate the missing data plate & USA number info.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by federico » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:55 am

Hi, I have started to restore a trailer ACM/frame number 124360.
Could you tell me the acceptable serial number to be indicated in the dataplate, delivery date and kind of dataplates.
No way to read any serial number around the trailer
Thank you in advance and very best regards
Federico
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