How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Quarter-ton trailer series, Wanted, USED PARTS FOR SALE NO EBAY or COMMERCIAL SALES., and Knowledge Base
Post Reply
Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 25853
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:00 am
Location: Novato, CA

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:56 pm

sam/boremop…


Send me the rest of the info when you can get to it, especially the ACM number. You have to unbolt the left front spring hanger from the gusset plate on the frame and wire wheel the gusset plate to reveal the ACM number and the "B" that will preceed, follow, be over or under the number. It will probably be right around 5000 give or take.

If you email me all that with a pic of the ACM that would be helpful....name and city for my records as well please.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

Jeepy78
G-Private
G-Private
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:31 am

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Jeepy78 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:36 pm

Dear Chuck ,

Thanks for your reply .
The problem I have is that the trailer had a long life within the french army , it has been sold by them only 2 years ago .
It is a nightmare to retrieve the story of these . I saw a post mentionning an "ITM" number . when you see a number like this , it is the end of the story as the trailer ( and it is the same with the jeeps !) have been taken off into single pieces ,and rebuilted using the pieces without paying attention on "where" it came from .
It is the way Us engineers made the jeeps, it si the way french army used them ! :D
My jeep is one of them … made of Ford , Willys and also Hotchkiss ( Willys overland France)
As far as the trailer is concerned , I'm a lucky one , as it is one of a few that has been rebuilt in a "civilian" factory , and they did not dismanteled it completly so I presume it is like a "matching number " one.

So welded brackets ? I can see scars that could be from welded brackets , but I can be wrong . I'll send you pictures soon if needed.
For french military vehicule , it is oftenly impossible to date it based on single details . the only "for sure" info I have is the ACM number I send a picture of : W 20 426 .

Other details could be confusing I'm afraid …. 75 years in use in the french army !!
But if you wish , I can send as many pictures as you want for your database .
You are my last chance to find out information on this trailer, even if partial, it would be be so much appreciated
Many thanks for your help .
Best Regards.

Jeepy78
G-Private
G-Private
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:31 am

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Jeepy78 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:15 am

Dear Chuck,
I had a close look at the brackets , and I guess your are right :bolted , not welded ! there a so many scares on it , from army updates within the years that it is hard to be sure .

Please find more pictures of it .
The first one shows a number that is , what I Believe to be a serial number given by the french Army , but just in case it is not !
IMG_3776.JPG
IMG_3776.JPG (93.12 KiB) Viewed 1111 times
Does that help ?
Many thanks for your help
Regards
Attachments
IMG_3770.JPG
IMG_3770.JPG (125.78 KiB) Viewed 1111 times
IMG_3764.JPG
IMG_3764.JPG (119.01 KiB) Viewed 1111 times
IMG_3763.JPG
IMG_3763.JPG (92.2 KiB) Viewed 1111 times
IMG_3765.JPG
IMG_3765.JPG (98.53 KiB) Viewed 1111 times

James Hybicki
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 10:57 am
Location: Muskego WI 53150

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by James Hybicki » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:10 am

PER WES KNETTLE APPROXIMATE USA# IS 0262267.

owner: Donald Hybicki
location: Wisconsin

1. Data plate info:
A. BantamT3
B. 13434
C. 3-1-43

2.
3.
4.
5.
6. middle weld
7. threaded, riveted to frame
8. 8 leaf, Willys type spring clip on bottom, flat leaf
9.
10.
11.
12. 12 links on chain on hitch
13.
14.
15. Corcoran/ Brown, nut inside
16. bolted on angle
17.
18.
19.


Jim Hybicki
262-232-3983
Jim Hybicki
3655 S. Racine Ave.
New Berlin, WI 53146
262-232-3983
jameshybicki@aol.com
MVPA 40 Year #632
MMVA 36 Year #103

Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 25853
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:00 am
Location: Novato, CA

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:26 pm

Jeepy....

This is why I encourage those who have a trailer with the data plate removed to check the frame, the drawbars and the front lip of the tub for any stampings which I can compare along with the ACM number to my data base.

I am happy to inform you that when I check your ACM number in the range of serial numbers...that "14056" works PERFECTLY in the "14xxx" serial number range! I would not hesitate for one second to use that on a new data plate. That would be a November 1942 DOD and a good USA number would be "0215747".
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)


Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 25853
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:00 am
Location: Novato, CA

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:29 pm

James...that USA number is what I show in my data base for that trailer as well.

However, can you ask Donald what the ACM number is? It should fall into the 37xxx range if that helps.

Thanks!
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

Jeepy78
G-Private
G-Private
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:31 am

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Jeepy78 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:28 am

Dear Chuck,
Many thanks for your reply and feed back .
I really thought this number did mean anything as I was told willys Numbers stated from 52000 to 60000

anyway , thanks a lot for your reply
Best regards

Frankie
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:44 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Frankie » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:01 pm

1) Data Plate: ORDNANCE DEP, SN 26811, DoD 8-13-43. 4 fields
2) USA Number: 2074144
3) ACM Number: 62372
4) Upper Shock Mount: threaded, BOLTED to frame LOWER shock mount threaded
5) Axle a straight tube, with a welded seam in the middle
6) Springs: Eight leaves, flattened "U" shape? spring clips with the closure on the top
7) Taillights & Reflectors: taillight buckets are non-miitary replacements What about the reflector bezels? Reflectors have the Round Head Machine Screws w/HEADS inside the tub. Lead washers not known.
8) Taillight Mounts: Standard "L" brackets bolted to the tub
9) Numbers: Look on the top or sides of the drawbars, check the edge of the front of the tub where the handbrake is bolted and look on the left side of the frame near the front of the trailer frame. Any numbers stamped there? No markings noted
10) Bolts: No markings found
11) Unit Numbers: Markings exist but not legible
IMG_2548.JPG
IMG_2548.JPG (131.1 KiB) Viewed 1036 times
IMG_2478.JPG
IMG_2478.JPG (161.23 KiB) Viewed 1036 times
IMG_2432.JPG
IMG_2432.JPG (225.33 KiB) Viewed 1036 times

Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 25853
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:00 am
Location: Novato, CA

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:29 pm

Looks like...0274114 to me....and it drops right into my spreadsheet like it should using the data plat and USA number as such.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

Frankie
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:44 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Frankie » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:56 pm

For Chuck: I’m going with 2074144, based on the distance between the first 41 and then 14. The gap between the 14 is too wide to be 11. In addition, the number 1 has serifs top and bottom whereas the 4 has the top left corner of the vertical bar cut at an angle, which 2074144 has. Also consider the following. I saw where you had given information on another T3, SN 27300, which is 489 numbers after mine, with USA nr 489 higher than mine (2074144) . On 1 Apr this year, you gave 27300 DoD Aug 10, three days earlier than mine. Not disputing your information, but isn't that unusual? Possible typo? Any possible explanation? Thanks, Frank

Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 25853
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:00 am
Location: Novato, CA

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:23 pm

No...I agree that 0274144 will work just fine. Can you direct me to the post for that 27300 T3 you mentioned please? Which thread and who was requesting info? thanks.

Can you send me full name/city/state for my records?
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

Frankie
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:44 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Frankie » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:52 pm

For Chuck: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=296028

Frank Zimmerman, Junction City, KS

Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 25853
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:00 am
Location: Novato, CA

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:39 am

Frankie....

My data base is only partially taken from actual records. For the most part I have had info passed on to me to enable me to construct serial numbers and DODs based on where an ACM falls into the existing data. The months of July and August do not, as I said in that post to Tony, have enough actual complete data plate info which is why estimating #27300 at that time was the best I could do. As I get additional info from data plates and ACM numbers and the occasional USA numbers many of the estimates I have made in the past could be improved upon. This is also why I ask those who get an estimate for their trailer based on an ACM number to check back with me as their restoration nears finishing to see if I can improve the estimates I gave them. This is the situation for Tony's and several others who had only an ACM number which resulted in a more difficult estimate from me.


I'm not guaranteeing very many unless the owners discover a serial number stamped somewhere or a complete USA number and have found the ACM number. It is a combination of 2 out of 3 of those that gives me a clue to the missing data plate info. It isn't perfect....but it is better than nothing which is what many trailer owners had to start with. You have more than most because you have the data plate and ACM number.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

User avatar
cripp
G-Lieutenant Colonel
G-Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 1199
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:29 pm
Location: Kent, England
Contact:

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by cripp » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:47 am

Hi Chuck,
Can you give any info on my friends trailer.
There is a data plate but it's a blank repro. No original usa numbers.

ACM No; 98702
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Paul

MB213146
06-45 Gemco Trailer.


http://www.g503.be

Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 25853
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:00 am
Location: Novato, CA

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:36 pm

Paul...

I just don't have any Bantam's with ACM numbers close to this one so this is only a fair estimate of the missing info.

Bantam
Serial Number...….41788
DOD...………………...1-11-44 (Jan 11)
USA Number...…….0457321

That's the best I can do...I wish more guys who have trailer projects or who have them finished would send me the data plate pic and the ACM number pic and if they have an original or partial original USA number....I could tidy up many of these estimates.!
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

Post Reply

Return to “Trailers 1/4 ton”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Andyhowesgpw and 13 guests