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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:22 pm
by 19OlllllllO41
Chuck Lutz wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:00 pm
That data plate is probably "18901" which is correct for January 1943 MBT. Of course the ACM number will confirm that so we need that next. Send me a pic or two of the ACM and look for the "W" there also. A better pic of the data plate would be helpful also.

It is a replacement or repop Lunette. The chains/mounts are for a Ben-Hur I think.
Taillights are may be from a Bantam T3-C or some other vehicle? If they are from that civvy trailer, those guys will be drooling over them and will trade you for WWII CB marked buckets. The Tiger-Eye bezels are not found on January 1943 trailers but hang on until we determine the ACM number...they would definitely be correct for some jeeps though and if in good condition very good tradin' material.

I'm not up on the USMC markings but Mark Tombleson is pretty savvy on them and may be able to help you out. They may be original or they may be something a PO put on there. Check to see how many layers of paint the trailer has under the numbers and look for UNIT markings if it is an actual WWII USMC trailer.

No idea about the stamping on the frame "9375" at this point in time....
Thanks so much for all of the information Chuck! I will get the ACM number ASAP and get back to you.

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:54 pm
by 19OlllllllO41
Chuck Lutz wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:00 pm
That data plate is probably "18901" which is correct for January 1943 MBT. Of course the ACM number will confirm that so we need that next. Send me a pic or two of the ACM and look for the "W" there also. A better pic of the data plate would be helpful also.

It is a replacement or repop Lunette. The chains/mounts are for a Ben-Hur I think.
Taillights are may be from a Bantam T3-C or some other vehicle? If they are from that civvy trailer, those guys will be drooling over them and will trade you for WWII CB marked buckets. The Tiger-Eye bezels are not found on January 1943 trailers but hang on until we determine the ACM number...they would definitely be correct for some jeeps though and if in good condition very good tradin' material.

I'm not up on the USMC markings but Mark Tombleson is pretty savvy on them and may be able to help you out. They may be original or they may be something a PO put on there. Check to see how many layers of paint the trailer has under the numbers and look for UNIT markings if it is an actual WWII USMC trailer.

No idea about the stamping on the frame "9375" at this point in time....
Hey Chuck,

Got the ACM Number today, it looks to be 29331 W (See Pics) Hope the ACM number helps with more info.

I also took a closer pic of the data plate. It looks like there could be a hint of a "1" in front of the 8901 as you pointed out. The 8901 is stamped really deep, and the 1 doesn't even look to have any indentation at all in that area.

Also, if the trailer did originally have a USA number and the USMC number I see is just something a PO added, what would you estimate the USA number to be? I am still going to do some sanding when I have some time to see what the layers of paint tell me, and see if I can find any unit markings on the rear frame rail. Ill get back to you with any info I find.

Thanks again for all of your info and help, Chuck!

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:16 am
by Chuck Lutz
It is 18901 all right....the ACM number confirms that. I do have some known serial number/USA number examples close to yours so the estimate of your serial number is very good...

You should be looking for something like "0220592" on the rear panel.
Even if the USMC numbers are original to the trailer, it would have first had the blue drab USA number on it.

Send me any additional info including name/city for my records, OK?

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:56 am
by 19OlllllllO41
Fantastic, thanks so much for the great info, Chuck. I did send away for a bonded title (bought the trailer with only a bill of sale) with 8901 as the SN, so my title may be "incorrect" in the end, but oh well! This info helps me a ton, and I will most likely use the USA number you provided me regardless since I will be making this trailer match my GPW in ARMY OD and not USMC OD. I will still do more investigating on the USMC numbers though once I have some time to carefully sand and expose them.

I will PM you with my name and info.

Thanks again!

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:54 pm
by marcel van genderen
Hi Chuck,

My name is Marcel i'm from the Netherlands. I recently bought a very rusty Bantam trailer which I'm very happy with! I really want to save as much as possible from the original material.

ImageIMG_8322 by Marcel Van Genderen, on Flickr

The ACM number:
ImageBantam ACM. by Marcel Van Genderen, on Flickr

The number is quite hard to read, but i think its #B32013#. Any comments welcome!!

I filled in the question list as good as i could:

1) Data Plate: None
2) USA Number: None
3) ACM Number: B32013
4) Upper Shock Mount: Is threaded and RIVETED, LOWER shock mount threaded .
5) Is the axel a straight tube, yes
6) Springs: How many leaves in the springs? Eight flattened "U" shape, The spring clips are with the closure on the the bottom.
7) Reflectors: Grote MS 35387-1, bolt heads inside tub.
9) Numbers: None.
Taillight Mounts: Standard "L" brackets bolted to the tub.
10) Bolts: Some with a single ''A''
11) Unit Numbers: None.

ImageIMG_8345 by Marcel Van Genderen, on Flickr

ImageIMG_8338 by Marcel Van Genderen, on Flickr

Image23231197_1192520757558495_9152731961612539588_n by Marcel Van Genderen, on Flickr

Image23316365_1192520784225159_1200378099320356239_n by Marcel Van Genderen, on Flickr

I hope you can help me!

Thanks, Marcel

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:38 pm
by gib83
Hello everyone, I started a renovation of a MBT Willys trailer that I bought from the French army.
It lacks the nameplate, but I found the chassis number under the left front suspension gusset.
The serial number of the chassis is: 90741
The shock absorber mountings are with pins.
The axle between the two wheels has a sleeve in the middle.
An ITM number has been registered by the French army: ITM 7132

What is the date of manufacture?
What is the registration number?
What is the date of the ITM number?

Thank you

Jean-Baptiste

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:48 pm
by Robbmic
Hello,

I was wondering what information you might have for my trailer. The Title states it is a 1942 Bantam. I would love to find out the Bantam Serial Number, Date of Delivery and the USA number. I have answered your questions below as best as I could.

1) Data Plate: If yours is present, what is the info stamped on it? How many "fields" are available for stamping info? No data plate

2) USA Number: Wet sand an upper corner area to see how many coats of paint are on the rear panel. Then SLOWLY wet sand right under the rear top hook to find the "USA", in doing that you will now know what to look for when you sand just above the lower frame rail looking for the eight numbers usually found on the rear panel...you may find White or Blue paint used here. Could not find any numbers

3) ACM Number: American Central MFG. made the tub/frame assembly. They put a number on the gusset plate under the left front spring hanger so remove it and wire-wheel the gusset looking for numbers about 7/16" in height. You may find a "B" or "W" in front, behind or below the number. Be advised that the VEP production of MBTs seem to have had the ACM number/letter stamped on the lip of the tub next to where the handbrake is bolted on rather than on the gusset! This would be approximately the first 1,500 units as far as I can tell at this point in time. Looks like 70603

4) Upper Shock Mount: Is it threaded or cotter-pin type? Is it RIVETED or BOLTED to the frame? Is the LOWER shock mount threaded or cotter-pin?
Upper shock mount cotter pin, mount bolted to the frame. Lower shock mount cotter pin also

5) Is the axel a straight tube, with a welded seam in the middle or does it have a center cast section?
Axle is solid tube. Does not have a seam or a center casting

6) Springs: How many leaves in the springs? Eight or ten? Standard FLAT Willys type or a flattened "U" shape? Are the spring clips with the closure on the top or the bottom?
8 leaves, Flattened "U" shape. Spring clip closures on the bottom

7) Taillights & Reflectors: What is the mfg of the taillight buckets and doors? What about the reflector bezels? Check to see if the reflectors have the bolt HEADS inside the tub. See if they have any lead washers on them. Missing Original Taillights and reflectors

8) Taillight Mounts: Standard "L" brackets bolted to the tub or welded on?
Standard "L" bracket bolted to the frame

9) Numbers: Look on the top or sides of the drawbars, check the edge of the front of the tub where the handbrake is bolted and look on the left side of the frame near the front of the trailer frame. Any numbers stamped there? No numbers stamped

10) Bolts: Check the markings (if any) on the bolt heads on the fenders or other bolts on the trailer. (A, AA, EC, BC or others or none?) No markings on the bolts

11) Unit Numbers: Most outfits did NOT mark the rear frame beneath the tub with the unit info but some did. Wet sand this area carefully also, there may be several coats of paint and several units markings! Sanded carefully, did not find anything.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Rob

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:33 am
by Chuck Lutz
Rob....

Check the axle to see if it is a SMOOTH tube or some evidence of a welded seam is there. Send me your name/city.
So far it seems to be a September 1943 Willys.

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:17 am
by Chris K
Hi Chuck,

This trailer was bought in the early 80s by my dad from a farmer in our village who got it shortly after the war and used it since. The farmer had cut out the rear panel but nicely kept it stored together with the hooks and chains :) .

1) Data Plate: If yours is present, what is the info stamped on it? How many "fields" are available for stamping info?

see image:
dataplate.jpg
dataplate.jpg (139.59 KiB) Viewed 1233 times


2) USA Number: Wet sand an upper corner area to see how many coats of paint are on the rear panel. Then SLOWLY
wet sand right under the rear top hook to find the "USA", in doing that you will now know what to look for when you sand just above the lower frame rail looking for the eight numbers usually found on the rear panel...you may find White or Blue paint used here.


unfortunately no registration numbers found. The paint was burnt off -- stupid..

3) ACM Number: American Central MFG. made the tub/frame assembly. They put a number on the gusset plate under the left front spring hanger so remove it and wire-wheel the gusset looking for numbers about 7/16" in height.

Is still assembled, when it goes through a next restoration, I will hopefully find it.


4) Upper Shock Mount: Is it threaded or cotter-pin type? Is it RIVETED or BOLTED to the frame? Is the LOWER shock mount threaded or cotter-pin?


Upper mount: cotter pin type, bolted to frame. Lower shock mount is also cotter pin type. Monroe adjustable shock absorbers:
spring_shock.jpg
spring_shock.jpg (151.29 KiB) Viewed 1233 times
5) Is the axel a straight tube, with a welded seam in the middle or does it have a center cast section?


Straight tube.

6) Springs: How many leaves in the springs? Eight or ten? Standard FLAT Willys type or a flattened "U" shape? Are the spring clips with the closure on the top or the bottom?


Standard flat willys springs: 8 leaves and spring clips closure on the bottom.

7) Taillights & Reflectors: What is the mfg of the taillight buckets and doors? What about the reflector bezels? Check to see if the reflectors have the bolt HEADS inside the tub. See if they have any lead washers on them.


Tail lights were gone, so unknown. Reflectors : Yankee Reflex round reflector bezels with reflector text S.R. CO.NR. 14. Bolt heads on the outside, so nuts inside the top:
reflector.jpg
reflector.jpg (98.26 KiB) Viewed 1233 times
8) Taillight Mounts: Standard "L" brackets bolted to the tub or welded on?


The brackets are bolted to the side rail / tub.

9) Numbers: Look on the top or sides of the drawbars, check the edge of the front of the tub where the handbrake is bolted and look on the left side of the frame near the front of the trailer frame. Any numbers stamped there?


No numbers found sofar

10) Bolts: Check the markings (if any) on the bolt heads on the fenders or other bolts on the trailer. (A, AA, EC, BC or others or none?)


‘A’ bolts on the fenders and wheel hub covers. No EC, AA, BC or others found.

11) Unit Numbers: Most outfits did NOT mark the rear frame beneath the tub with the unit info but some did. Wet sand this area carefully also, there may be several coats of paint and several units markings!

not found

Other info: Lunette / towing eye – part number A-6370 (if I read it well) visible in raised fonts. Chains have hooks with ‘TH’ marking:

eye_chains.jpg
eye_chains.jpg (109.44 KiB) Viewed 1233 times
I was wondering why a trailer with August 1943 delivery date would still have a QMC plate, because I thought that by that time the responsibility would be with the ORD department? Also, what would be an appropriate USA registration number for this trailer?

thanks,
Chris

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:46 am
by Chuck Lutz
Chris....

An approximate USA number would be 0236016. Numbers were applied sequentially sometimes and sometimes it seems the day's production of trailers were not given there USA numbers sequentially.

The QM plates did not change until around October, but the added "ORD" stamping began as early as August.

Can you email me that ACM number, your last name and city?

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:35 am
by Chris K
Thanks very much, Chuck

that is very helpfull ! Answer sent directly to you via email.

best regards,
Chris

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:26 am
by Robbmic
Chuck Lutz wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:33 am
Rob....

Check the axle to see if it is a SMOOTH tube or some evidence of a welded seam is there. Send me your name/city.
So far it seems to be a September 1943 Willys.
It is definitely a smooth tube. It is from Seattle, Washington. Has a very old Washington State DMV issued VIN number plate riveted to the tub.

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:47 pm
by Bentwood
Chuck,
just bought a pretty complete trailer, hope you can help me ID it

1) Data Plate: Missing, rivets present
2) USA Number: pretty sure it is 0624056
3) ACM Number: 96404 cannot see a letter
4) Upper Shock Mount: cotter-pin type. BOLTED to the frame. LOWER shock mount cotter-pin
5) the axel is a straight tube
6) Springs: How many leaves in the springs? ten. flattened "U" shape. the spring clips with the closure on the bottom.
7) Taillights & Reflectors: What is the mfg of the taillight buckets and doors? C-B
What about the reflector bezels? Corcoran Brown Plastic no 100 and grotelite no 100 reflectors
and have the bolt HEADS inside the tub and lead washers on them.
8) Taillight Mounts: Standard "L" brackets bolted to the tub
9) Numbers: on the top of the left drawbar, DR342581T
10) Bolts: Check the markings (if any) on the bolt heads on the fenders or other bolts on the trailer. (A, AA, EC, BC or others or none?) O or C
11) Unit Numbers: Most outfits did NOT mark the rear frame beneath the tub with the unit info but some did. Wet sand this area carefully also, there may be several coats of paint and several units markings! Still looking. Was painted over in USMC markings

Thanks
Matt

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:33 pm
by Chuck Lutz
Hi Matt...

The relationship between the ACM number and that USA number hold up so I think they are original and unless one or two numbers are not quite perfect, any chance you can send me a pic of each of them?

If they hold up then the following is a pretty GOOD close estimate for you!

Willys MBT
Serial Number.......54811
DOD...................1--44
USA Number.........0624056

Can you send me your last name for my records? I assume you and the trailer are in Henderson, NV?

Happy Holidays!

Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:09 am
by Myers
My Bantam T3 was "restored" by the PO for his off road club, so the original paint was sanded down and some of the smaller items removed (tail lights, chains, reflectors, etc).

1 ) Data Plate: 5-4-45 Bantam T3 (SN 68871)
2 ) USA Number: MISSING
3 ) ACM Number:139555
4 ) Upper/Lower Shock Stud: Threaded (shock mounts were also bolted to the frame)
5 ) Axle: Smooth solid
6 ) Springs: 10 Springs
7 ) Taillights & Reflectors: MISSING
8 ) Taillight Mounts: MISSING
9) Draw bar Numbers: None that I could find so far
10 ) Bolts: BC or plain head
11 ) Unit Numbers: None so far