How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by nwarcade » Thu May 25, 2017 8:56 pm

Thanks for replying Chuck. I would like to restore this as a WWII style MBT for parade work. You mentioned finding a USA# and SN# for a "WWII interpretation" in a separate Japanese MBT thread. Would it be possible to come up with some numbers for my trailer? I also received a pretty neat piece of documentation from the previous owner.

Image

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed May 31, 2017 1:15 pm

If you want to do yours up as a WWII trailer, it would probably be best to go with a Bantam as that is the style produced/copied by the Japanese who did this.

It is my understanding that they did several tasks...
1) repaired US trailers for the US
2) built copies using some US parts for the US forces and some with copies
3) built copies using some US parts and some DIFFERENT parts as spec'd for the Japanese Self Defense Forces.

If yours has no ACM number then it is likely a #2 if it came to you with the US style taillights on it rather than the Japanese style taillights as #3 style were outfitted with.

So...I you want to create a "legend" for this trailer then I suggest if it is a #2 style, that you go with a Bantam....not too early as yours will have bolted on supper shock mounts and depending on which it has....eight or ten leaf springs (US or Mitsubishi licensed) that you go with the early 8-leaf vs. a post late-1944 10-leaf presentation.

Let me know what you want to do by emailing me and send me pictures please! I may have some pics of wrecked Bantams that would enable you to use one of their USA numbers so your representation is "clean".

Nice piece of paperwork and it says who imported it and from whom....
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Whiskey7 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:28 am

Here is Al Brass' ACM number showing you where it is obscured by the Left Front Spring Hanger/Bracket...
ACM #36501 Al Brass.jpgTo start off...don't bother to send me just SOME of the answers to these questions. If you don't know the answer, then don't bother sending what you do know until you can give me all the answers to these questions, OK?
1) Data Plate: If yours is present, what is the info stamped on it? How many "fields" are available for stamping info?
2) USA Number: Wet sand an upper corner area to see how many coats of paint are on the rear panel. Then SLOWLY wet sand right under the rear top hook to find the "USA", in doing that you will now know what to look for when you sand just above the lower frame rail looking for the eight numbers usually found on the rear panel...you may find White or Blue paint used here.
3) ACM Number: American Central MFG. made the tub/frame assembly. They put a number on the gusset plate under the left front spring hanger so remove it and wire-wheel the gusset looking for numbers about 7/16" in height. You may find a "B" or "W" in front, behind or below the number.
4) Upper Shock Mount: Is it threaded or cotter-pin type? Is it RIVETED or BOLTED to the frame? Is the LOWER shock mount threaded or cotter-pin?
5) Is the axel a straight tube, with a welded seam in the middle or does it have a center cast section?
6) Springs: How many leaves in the springs? Eight or ten? Standard FLAT Willys type or a flattened "U" shape? Are the spring clips with the closure on the top or the bottom?
7) Taillights & Reflectors: What is the mfg of the taillight buckets and doors? What about the reflector bezels? Check to see if the reflectors have the bolt HEADS inside the tub. See if they have any lead washers on them.
8) Taillight Mounts: Standard "L" brackets bolted to the tub or welded on?
9) Numbers: Look on the top or sides of the drawbars, check the edge of the front of the tub where the handbrake is bolted and look on the left side of the frame near the front of the trailer frame. Any numbers stamped there?
10) Bolts: Check the markings (if any) on the bolt heads on the fenders or other bolts on the trailer. (A, AA, EC, BC or others or none?)
11) Unit Numbers: Most outfits did NOT mark the rear frame beneath the tub with the unit info but some did. Wet sand this area carefully also, there may be several coats of paint and several units markings!

(Sanding tip: As you go, get some tracing paper and keep adding what numbers/letters are revealed as often as you reveal a new area, you will sand through an existing one so if you are tracing the new stuff, you can decipher the USA number or unit info easier with tracing paper. The White or Blue paint used was often not very thick and sands off quickly.

DO NOT USE PAINT STRIPPER, ELECTRIC SANDERS OR BE IN A HURRY. YOU HAVE ONE CHANCE ONLY TO GATHER THAT INFO!)

Email me what you find and I can give you an estimate of a missing or damaged data plate or a possible USA number. From what you can provide, we can tell if it is a Bantam or Willys. Email it to me directly or post an inquiry below asking for info once you have gathered the infomation I will need to assist you. Simply hit the "EMAIL" button below this and send what you have. A closeup of the data plate for my records would be appreciated.

PS....if you find the reflector bezels are K-D 333 and have FOUR screws to hold them on...and your data plate is missing...you may very well have a Converto T6 US Navy 1/4 Ton trailer from 1945....

PPS...check the JeepDraw site as Jon has a longer version of this and some great pic's from Al Brass' Bantam.

http://jeepdraw.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - Focus on Trailers -


Good Luck,

Chuck

Chuck here are the findings from my trailer, limited and all as they are

1. No Data plate present
2. No numbers or other markings after careful sanding
3. 123740 (after previous discussion)
4. Upper and lower threaded with a hole for cotter pin (mine were secured with nuts) Bolted to frame.
5. Straight tube no visible weld.
6.8 leaves, flattened U,closure on the top.
7. Post war lights with turn signals. Post war reflectors bolts inside to out but no lead washers.
8. Original light brackets bolted to frame.
9. No stamping son A frame or front of tub frame
10. Lots of BC bolts!
11. No unit markings found

Any help with estimating data plate info and USA number greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Eric & Caimin

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:16 am

Eric....your Bantam falls into a long list of trailers that owners have asked about but unfortunately none of those who have responded to me had a data plate or any visible USA number either...therefore while the serial number I am giving you is a rough estimate, the DOD is even more of a guesstimate and the USA is just a bit more of a guess....but, as they say, better than nothing. If I could get some owners who have an original data plate and the ACM number for me and maybe even a whole or partial USA number to help me with my data base, I could do much better with these estimates...

So for now, here is the best I can do for you:

Bantam (the threaded shocks tell us that and the high ACM number is past where Willys was making trailers!)
Serial Number.........54103
DOD.....................11/29/44
USA Number...........0707333

If you are starting a resto, why not get back to me near the end and see if by chance I have any new data to firm up the estimates of your missing data.

Can you PM me your last name and city/state for my records please?
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Whiskey7 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:07 pm

Thanks Chuck that's 100% more than I had yesterday! I really appreciate it. I'll get back to you before we stencil it or get data plates made. My son Caimin who's 16 is doing the main resto work and his plan is to have it on the road next summer.
PM on the way.

Eric


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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by 1942GPW » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:13 pm

Hello Chuck - I'm hoping you can help me identify the Manufacturer, Serial Number, DOD and other info needed to reproduce a data plate for my newly acquired trailer from Robin here in Oregon. I'm tearing it down for a full restoration and here's the information I've collected:

1) Data Plate: Not present
2) USA Number: Blue Number U.S.A. 0827375
3) ACM Number: 132074
4) Upper Shock Mount: Threaded and BOLTED to the frame. LOWER shock mount Threaded.
5) Axle is a straight tube
6) Springs: 10 leaves in the springs. Flattened "U" shape. Spring clips with the closure on the top.
7) Taillights & Reflectors: Not present
8) Taillight Mounts: Standard "L" brackets bolted to the tub.
9) Numbers: No extra numbers present
10) Bolts: Bolts BC
11) Unit Numbers: Not present

Thanks - Eric
Eric (West Linn, Oregon)
1942 Ford GPW (SN 70778)
1945 Bantam T3 Trailer (SN 64316 est.)
1952 Strick M100 Trailer (SN 12215)

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by 1942GPW » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:02 pm

Hello Chuck - Let me know if you need any other information. I really appreciate your guidance with my restoration! Thanks again - Eric

P.s., who makes the best floor panel?
Eric (West Linn, Oregon)
1942 Ford GPW (SN 70778)
1945 Bantam T3 Trailer (SN 64316 est.)
1952 Strick M100 Trailer (SN 12215)

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:28 am

Hi Eric...

I would suggest you go with the following:

Bantam
Serial Number.....64316
DOD.................3-13-45
USA.................0827375

Can you send me your full name and city/state for my records by email?

I don't have a recommendation on trailer floors myself, but if you do a gee search in the 1/4 ton trailer forum under "floor" you might get a couple hits and see what others have found on the different vendors and their products.

Did you check the drawbars and the front tub lip for any markings stamped into them that could possibly give us a hint about the original serial number? Congrats on finding the USA number in blue....very few guys ever find that!
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by 1942GPW » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:13 pm

You've got it! BTW, which reflectors and taillights am I looking for, Arrow?

Thanks - Eric
45 Bantam.JPG
45 Bantam.JPG (108.54 KiB) Viewed 531 times
Eric (West Linn, Oregon)
1942 Ford GPW (SN 70778)
1945 Bantam T3 Trailer (SN 64316 est.)
1952 Strick M100 Trailer (SN 12215)

1942GPW
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by 1942GPW » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:17 pm

45 Bantam 2.JPG
45 Bantam 2.JPG (75.59 KiB) Viewed 531 times
Eric (West Linn, Oregon)
1942 Ford GPW (SN 70778)
1945 Bantam T3 Trailer (SN 64316 est.)
1952 Strick M100 Trailer (SN 12215)

Chuck Lutz
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:59 pm

I'd go with ARROW buckets & doors and GROTELITE No. 100 lenses in CORORAN - BROWN bezels.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by 19OlllllllO41 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:12 pm

Hey Chuck,

I recently picked up a MBT Trailer and wanted to share the info I know about it so far. It looks to be pretty much original except for its landing leg, and possibly the reflectors. I will post what I know about it below. The biggest question I have is are the USMC numbers I found on it original/correct or just some fantasy numbers someone stenciled on at some point, are my reflectors/taillights correct, and are my safety chain hooks correct?

1. Data Plate info: SN 8901, DOD 1-43
2) USA Number: I have not sanded but can visibly see the following in good light under the current coat of OD paint: On the rear panel AND front panel: USMC 33707 (I can also see a 7 and a 5 in a smaller stencil font that is on top of the 0 and 7, I cannot make out any more of that "second set" of numbers. ALSO, a star on each side of the tub, about 8 inches from tip to tip in front of each wheel. Also, there looks to have been something above the reflector on the right rear side of the back panel, circular shape seen in picture below.
3) ACM Number: Looks to be 29331 W
4) Upper Shock Mount: Cotter Pin Uppers, Rivited, Cotter Pin Lowers
5) Straight Tube with a Welded Seam
6) Springs: 8 leaves, If I understand the question correct they are more of a flattened u (see pic), bottom closure
7) Taillights & Reflectors: Taillights: Duolamp with glass lenses. Reflectors: Tiger Ey CB No 100 Cin Ohio Plastic
8) Taillight Mounts: Standard "L" brackets bolted on.
9) Numbers: 9375 stamped on pintle and on frame rail. 10924579 on safety chain attachment points. 7339460 on safety chain hooks.
10) Bolts: Possibly a BC on one? See pic. Most dont have markings, many look to have been replaces or missing on fenders.
11) Unit Numbers: None that I can see.
Attachments
Rear Numbers Small 1.jpeg
Rear Numbers Small 1.jpeg (64.71 KiB) Viewed 418 times
Bolt Small.jpeg
Bolt Small.jpeg (54.71 KiB) Viewed 419 times
Frame Number.jpeg
Frame Number.jpeg (44.01 KiB) Viewed 419 times
Chain Attachment Small.jpeg
Chain Attachment Small.jpeg (85.25 KiB) Viewed 419 times
Pintle Small.jpeg
Pintle Small.jpeg (41.97 KiB) Viewed 419 times
Reflector Small.jpeg
Reflector Small.jpeg (36.9 KiB) Viewed 419 times
Safety Chain Small.jpeg
Safety Chain Small.jpeg (65.84 KiB) Viewed 419 times
Taillight small.jpeg
Taillight small.jpeg (44.97 KiB) Viewed 420 times
Leafs Small.jpeg
Leafs Small.jpeg (61.24 KiB) Viewed 420 times
Data Plate Small.jpg
Data Plate Small.jpg (68.7 KiB) Viewed 420 times
Last edited by 19OlllllllO41 on Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1941 Ford GP 16341
1942 Ford GPW 11064
1943 Willys MBT 18901
1948 Willys Pickup
1993 YJ
2005 TJ Rubicon

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19OlllllllO41
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by 19OlllllllO41 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:19 pm

Pics Cont...
Attachments
US Small.jpeg
US Small.jpeg (51.8 KiB) Viewed 417 times
1941 Ford GP 16341
1942 Ford GPW 11064
1943 Willys MBT 18901
1948 Willys Pickup
1993 YJ
2005 TJ Rubicon

Chuck Lutz
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:00 pm

That data plate is probably "18901" which is correct for January 1943 MBT. Of course the ACM number will confirm that so we need that next. Send me a pic or two of the ACM and look for the "W" there also. A better pic of the data plate would be helpful also.

It is a replacement or repop Lunette. The chains/mounts are for a Ben-Hur I think.
Taillights are may be from a Bantam T3-C or some other vehicle? If they are from that civvy trailer, those guys will be drooling over them and will trade you for WWII CB marked buckets. The Tiger-Eye bezels are not found on January 1943 trailers but hang on until we determine the ACM number...they would definitely be correct for some jeeps though and if in good condition very good tradin' material.

I'm not up on the USMC markings but Mark Tombleson is pretty savvy on them and may be able to help you out. They may be original or they may be something a PO put on there. Check to see how many layers of paint the trailer has under the numbers and look for UNIT markings if it is an actual WWII USMC trailer.

No idea about the stamping on the frame "9375" at this point in time....
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by 17thAirborne » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:10 pm

disregard
Oz

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