How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

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Chuck Lutz
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How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:25 pm

If your new trailer is missing the data plate or you need to figure out a USA Number for it, I can help you. Send me the information you gather from the trailer and I will try to fill in what is missing. Just clear up a basic misconception here...the ACM number that is found on the gusset plate when you remove the four bolts that hold the left front spring hanger to it is NOT, I repeat NOT...the Serial Number from Bantam or Willys.

Here is Al Brass' ACM number showing you where it is obscured by the Left Front Spring Hanger/Bracket...
ACM #36501 Al Brass.jpg
To start off...don't bother to send me just SOME of the answers to these questions. If you don't know the answer, then don't bother sending what you do know until you can give me all the answers to these questions, OK?
1) Data Plate: If yours is present, what is the info stamped on it? How many "fields" are available for stamping info?
2) USA Number: Wet sand an upper corner area to see how many coats of paint are on the rear panel. Then SLOWLY wet sand right under the rear top hook to find the "USA", in doing that you will now know what to look for when you sand just above the lower frame rail looking for the eight numbers usually found on the rear panel...you may find White or Blue paint used here.
3) ACM Number: American Central MFG. made the tub/frame assembly. They put a number on the gusset plate under the left front spring hanger so remove it and wire-wheel the gusset looking for numbers about 7/16" in height. You may find a "B" or "W" in front, behind or below the number. Be advised that the VEP production of MBTs seem to have had the ACM number/letter stamped on the lip of the tub next to where the handbrake is bolted on rather than on the gusset! This would be approximately the first 1,500 units as far as I can tell at this point in time.
4) Upper Shock Mount: Is it threaded or cotter-pin type? Is it RIVETED or BOLTED to the frame? Is the LOWER shock mount threaded or cotter-pin?
5) Is the axel a straight tube, with a welded seam in the middle or does it have a center cast section?
6) Springs: How many leaves in the springs? Eight or ten? Standard FLAT Willys type or a flattened "U" shape? Are the spring clips with the closure on the top or the bottom?
7) Taillights & Reflectors: What is the mfg of the taillight buckets and doors? What about the reflector bezels? Check to see if the reflectors have the bolt HEADS inside the tub. See if they have any lead washers on them.
8) Taillight Mounts: Standard "L" brackets bolted to the tub or welded on?
9) Numbers: Look on the top or sides of the drawbars, check the edge of the front of the tub where the handbrake is bolted and look on the left side of the frame near the front of the trailer frame. Any numbers stamped there?
10) Bolts: Check the markings (if any) on the bolt heads on the fenders or other bolts on the trailer. (A, AA, EC, BC or others or none?)
11) Unit Numbers: Most outfits did NOT mark the rear frame beneath the tub with the unit info but some did. Wet sand this area carefully also, there may be several coats of paint and several units markings!

(Sanding tip: As you go, get some tracing paper and keep adding what numbers/letters are revealed as often as you reveal a new area, you will sand through an existing one so if you are tracing the new stuff, you can decipher the USA number or unit info easier with tracing paper. The White or Blue paint used was often not very thick and sands off quickly.

DO NOT USE PAINT STRIPPER, ELECTRIC SANDERS OR BE IN A HURRY. YOU HAVE ONE CHANCE ONLY TO GATHER THAT INFO!)

Email me what you find and I can give you an estimate of a missing or damaged data plate or a possible USA number. From what you can provide, we can tell if it is a Bantam or Willys. Email it to me directly or post an inquiry below asking for info once you have gathered the infomation I will need to assist you. Simply hit the "EMAIL" button below this and send what you have. A closeup of the data plate for my records would be appreciated.

PS....if you find the reflector bezels are K-D 333 and have FOUR screws to hold them on...and your data plate is missing...you may very well have a Converto T6 US Navy 1/4 Ton trailer from 1945....

PPS...check the JeepDraw site as Jon has a longer version of this and some great pic's from Al Brass' Bantam.

http://jeepdraw.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - Focus on Trailers -


Good Luck,

Chuck
Last edited by Chuck Lutz on Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:09 pm, edited 8 times in total.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Post by Bill H. » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:23 pm

My Gemco numbers were found on the frame just below the rear panel. If you look close you can just make out that both number and USA had a blue hew to them. It should be noted that this is a May 1945 Gemco and they may have numbered theirs on this frame instead of the rear panel as Chuck mentioned. Either way, if you guys have trouble IDing your trailer, contact Chuck or post your info here so all can use it as a guide. He has compiled a wealth of data on these trailers.

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Chuck Lutz
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trailer ID

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:17 am

BTT
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Post by gpwmke » Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:29 pm

I just started to disassemble my trailer for the start of a very ambitious rebuild. The spring hangers were replaced by some welded junk from the previous owner and they welded over where the ACM number should be stamped. Maybe by careful grinding I can get a partial number. My question concerns the axle which I just removed. It is the kind that is welded in the middle. Does this mean my trailer is most likely an MBT? The rear panel was cut out years ago and a wood stake rack was fitted in back. Any other place I could try looking for a USA number? Best wishes;

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Bummer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:33 pm

Hi Leo...

Take a look at the JeepDraw site, I sent a lengthy post on this he has kindly added to his section on Trailers....

Aside from the info at the top of this thread and on Jon's site, you are going to have to survey it completly when torn down. Things like the axel can be swapped in rebuild programs so that is not a good indicator, only a hint at the maker.

Trying to find the ACM number is the best way to find out more about your trailer, but even then, at certain points during production, small orders for both Willys and Bantam make estimating who made one difficult. Whereas at other times there were thousands sent to one or the other so that an odd ACM number that fit into a large group known to be of one maker or the other was certainly identifiable.

Good luck and get back to me when you have her torn down and all parts listed with part numbers and descriptions written down....

PS...Willys used the WO A-xxxx part numbers on many items, Bantam did not but this is not a guarantee as these were the items that bolted on and could be mixed up at a rebuild.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)


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Post by 7slotgrills » Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:52 pm

When I first got my Jeep trailer I did not know what I had.A friend told me to go online a seach. I came across Chuck's website and that's how I found out what Jeep trailer I had. A M100 from the brackets on the front,for a box and round fenders. Most of the parts were missing and the back was cut out for a tailgate but no tail gate. These sites are great to help people with the info they need I'm not an expert buy now I know what to look for.Thanks Chuck
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Trailer id

Post by Bogoble » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:48 pm

I'm working on a trailer for the Ft. Macarthur Museum in San Pedro CA. I will answer the questions and hopefully get a clue as to what they have. A lot of data is missing.
1) Data plate missing, 4 holes only
2) Trailer came from bishop area and has no exterior paint, just rust. underneath in some of the hidden places and axle is blue, as in Army Air Force?
3) I found the ACM # as directed it is 149158
4) upper and lower shocks have a threaded nut, bracket bolted to frame.HOWEVER there is a hole on all four mounts that looks like it could be cotter keyed if the thread were cut off.
5) axle is straight tube.
6) Springs have 10 leaves appear flat, keepers rivited
7) no tail lights
8 only one bracket left and that is bolted diagonally with two bolts
9) Left draw bar has stamped as follows +733+
10) bolts have no markings
11) All rust, no numbers or unit markings available

Thanks for any help. :lol: :lol: :D :D
Bob Goble
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42 MB, Canadian
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Canadian M101 trailer
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Is my trailer a militar Bantam ?

Post by rbastos » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:24 am

Chuck, I´ve followed your instructions found at Jeepdraw and by that my trailler looks like a Bantam. I Took some pictures posted at the link below.

Could you please analise them and confim if I´m right ?

There are 3 small pipes welded at each side internally to the body (picture Trailer_0034), I´ve never seen that in other traillers....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11009346@N ... 975841252/

Regards,

Rafael Bastos
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- Bantam T3 - SN #57306 - DOD 1/6/45 - USA #0826488 (est.)

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Post by Mage » Tue May 20, 2008 10:34 am

Here is the information my Trailer

1) Data plate missing, 4 holes only
2) USA Number: None found
3 ACM # 3001 3
4) Upper Shock Mount: cotter-pin
5) Axle: straight tube see no weld seem in center (will Double check) and no center casting.
6) Springs: 8 leafs
7) Tail lights and reflectors: No lights. Reflector where remove when purchased, no idea if the bolt head where inside or out. No lead washers included.
8. Tail Light Bracket: L shaped, bolted on.
9) Numbers: Can't find any other numbers where indicated to look. (will double check)
10) Fender bolts: marked with a "A"
11) Unit markings: None found

Title stated 1942 willys

Any info you have will be appreciated

Thanks!!!

http://www.southwestregulators.com/gall ... iginal.jpg

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MB-T Trailer

Post by John 062953 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:59 am

Chuck,

Can you tell me anything more about this trailer?
MB-T
On side of trailer USN 26 4488
Nameplate
Willys-Overland Motors INC.
Ser #58273
DOD 1--44
Parts List SNL-G529
OP Manual TM9 1230
Maint Manual TM9 1230
ACM #101560

Also on rear & on left fender
Logo U/SN with a design and (Y&D) on the bottom in a dotted circle

Thanks
John Hackfort
Carroll Iowa
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Help me id

Post by JCappy » Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:45 am

Chuck,
Is this a WWII era trailer or not?
Image
Thanks,
John
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Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:57 am

John, I think that type has been discussed before as not being WWII American made....of course a check for the ACM number would confirm it one way or the other....if it has the ACM then it's just been "modified"....but the frame looks all wrong even though the tub appears to be similar to a WWII Bantam/MB/etc.

My initial response is....no....check the ACM though to be sure...
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Thanks....

Post by JCappy » Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:02 pm

Chuck,
Thanks for confirming my suspicions....you just saved me a 600 mile round trip drive!
Happy Thanksgiving,
John
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by GOT 4WD » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:30 pm

sent my info
1) Two avail stamping locations. Serial # and DOD. Serial # 5737
2)Not avail. Previous owner sandblasted
3)ACM# 6717 W
4)Cotter Pin with washer
5)Cast center section
6)8 springs, parabolic springs, clips on bottom
7)Not orig. tail lights
Welded on Tail light mounts
9)Didnt check but will tommorrow
10)Fender bolts have "A", hand brake stuff has "E C" and also have some other "AA" bolts
11) everything but underside was sandblasted
1945 CJ2A # 10351
1946 CJ2A # 15691
1942 MB-T # 5737

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by jeep-fr » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:31 pm

Chuck,

Here the informations you asked me about my trailer:

My Name : BONHOMME Nicolas.
I live in France and the city is : Chauvigny.
My e-mail : militaire22@hotmail.com

Trailer's serial number : W 8112.
Make : Willys MBT, without dataplates.
It come from French army.

If you find more infos, please tell me, and thank for your help ! :)

Photographys :

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Thank's

Nicolas.
GMC CCKW352-B1 Artillery Tractor.
1ton wood trailer.
1/4ton Willys trailer Serial Number : 8112.


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