War & Peace Trailer

Quarter-ton trailer series, Wanted, USED PARTS FOR SALE NO EBAY or COMMERCIAL SALES., and Knowledge Base
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cushman
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War & Peace Trailer

Post by cushman » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:42 am

Hi all,
I thought I'd share with you the details of the trailer I bought at this years War & Peace Show. I hope Chuck and anyone else who may be interested can help me find any more info there may be regarding this trailer.
It was used after the war by the French army and has had many modifications and alterations done to it.

1) Data Plate: If yours is present, what is the info stamped on it? How many "fields" are available for stamping info?
Sorry no data plate present but the rivets are still there

2) USA Number: Wet sand an upper corner area to see how many coats of paint are on the rear panel. Then SLOWLY wet sand right under the rear top hook to find the "USA", in doing that you will now know what to look for when you sand just above the lower frame rail looking for the eight numbers usually found on the rear panel...you may find White or Blue paint used here.
I have wet sanded the rear panel but cannot find a USA or number on the panel but there is a number (1018097) on the rear frame member

3) ACM Number: American Central MFG. made the tub/frame assembly. They put a number on the gusset plate under the left front spring hanger so remove it and wire-wheel the gusset looking for numbers about 7/16" in height. You may find a "B" or "W" in front, behind or below the number.
ACM Number 25135W

4) Upper Shock Mount: Is it threaded or cotter-pin type? Is it RIVETED or BOLTED to the frame? Is the LOWER shock mount threaded or cotter-pin?
Upper shock mount is riveted to the frame and is the cotter pin type. The lower mount is also the cotter pin type.

5) Is the axel a straight tube, with a welded seam in the middle or does it have a center cast section?
The axle has the cast centre section.

6) Springs: How many leaves in the springs? Eight or ten? Standard FLAT Willys type or a flattened "U" shape? Are the spring clips with the closure on the top or the bottom?
Ten leaf springs, (renewed by the French)? The edges of the springs are chamfered? The spring clip closures are at the top.

7) Taillights & Reflectors: What is the mfg of the taillight buckets and doors? What about the reflector bezels? Check to see if the reflectors have the bolt HEADS inside the tub. See if they have any lead washers on them.
The tail lights and the reflectors have been removed buy the French.

8) Taillight Mounts: Standard "L" brackets bolted to the tub or welded on?
There are no tail light mounts but the holes for bolting them on are present.

9) Numbers: Look on the top or sides of the drawbars, check the edge of the front of the tub where the handbrake is bolted and look on the left side of the frame near the front of the trailer frame. Any numbers stamped there?
I have only found some numbers painted on the draw bars that I think are from its time with the French Army. I have found a number stamped on the right side of the frame (16751) between the front spring hangar bracket and the front of the tub. I have still to do a lot of cleaning and there is a lot of flaking paint so I may still find some numbers elsewhere.

10) Bolts: Check the markings (if any) on the bolt heads on the fenders or other bolts on the trailer. (A, AA, EC, BC or others or none?)
The bolts that hold the spring hangers to the frame are marked with an A. The bolts that hold the draw bars to the frame are marked with a C over TR. The small bolt that hold the lunette bracket to the frame are marked KARRO 8G UNF, the large bolts that hold the bracket are unmarked. Some of the fender bolts are marked RIBE 8G and some NSF 8G, I haven't checked them all yet

11) Unit Numbers: Most outfits did NOT mark the rear frame beneath the tub with the unit info but some did. Wet sand this area carefully also, there may be several coats of paint and several units markings!
I have wet sanded this area and the only markings I can find are the numbers mentioned above (1018097)

I will post some photos up later, so if there are any anyone needs or wants or any more info needed please ask.

Many thanks,
Chris.
1944 Dodge WC-63
1957 Hotchkiss M-201
1942 Willys MBT
1943 Bantam T3
1943 WLA Type IV


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Chuck Lutz
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Re: War & Peace Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:43 am

Chris....congradulations on finding an early Willys MBT!
Your detective work seems to have paid off this time which is why I ask guys to carefully SEARCH for clues!
When I check the data base for MBTs in the range of 25135W.....yours would fall right into an group of MBTs with serial numbers in the high 16xxx range and low 17xxx range.

With that in mind....I would say that if you found "16751" on the frame....that you just discovered the original serial number of that trailer!

The "1018097" you found is probably a post-war number since the G529s used only SEVEN digits beginning with "0".....except for some very LATE WAR ones and that number does not fit into those contract USA numbers any way....and those 1945 trailers had Bantam features!

I would consider yours to be:
Willys MB-T
Serial Number.....16751
DOD.................December 1942 (12 42)
USA Number.......0218443

Some carefull sanding on the rear panel sometimes will reveal some/all of the USA number but it seems the ones that came from the French Army are often removed.....

Yours has the bolt on taillight brackets, the ACM number with a "W", the riveted upper shock mounts and the cast axle that all are correct for an MB-T in this serial number range!

If you can send me a pic of the ACM number and that "16751" you found and the city in which you live for my records I would appreciate it. By the way, go with Robert de Ruyter's data plate...he will even STAMP it for you so it since the MBTs had the stamping slightly different during production and he has examples of originals on either side of 16751 to support that style of stamping.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

cushman
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Re: War & Peace Trailer

Post by cushman » Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:13 pm

Hi Chuck,
Thanks very much for that great information regarding the dates and serial number.
I have sent you a couple of emails with the photos and information you requested.
I will post some photos on here once I find out how :oops:

Many thanks,
Chris.
1944 Dodge WC-63
1957 Hotchkiss M-201
1942 Willys MBT
1943 Bantam T3
1943 WLA Type IV

cushman
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Re: War & Peace Trailer

Post by cushman » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:42 am

Hi all,
Well it's been over a year since I bought the trailer and I've finally found out how to post pictures (actually my son showed me). So I thought I would share some photos with the members.

The trailer as I bought it.
DSCF2501.JPG
DSCF2501.JPG (230.4 KiB) Viewed 2189 times
DSCF2499.JPG
DSCF2499.JPG (220.9 KiB) Viewed 2189 times
DSCF2502.JPG
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DSCF2504.JPG
DSCF2504.JPG (167.88 KiB) Viewed 2189 times
DSCF2500.JPG
DSCF2500.JPG (202.64 KiB) Viewed 2189 times
A few of the French Army markings.
DSCF2505.JPG
DSCF2505.JPG (182.17 KiB) Viewed 2189 times
I'll add some more later this evening.

Cheers,
Chris
1944 Dodge WC-63
1957 Hotchkiss M-201
1942 Willys MBT
1943 Bantam T3
1943 WLA Type IV

cushman
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Re: War & Peace Trailer

Post by cushman » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:12 pm

Here are a few more of how it was when I got it.
DSCF2510.JPG
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DSCF2517.JPG (247.52 KiB) Viewed 2173 times
DSCF2518.JPG
DSCF2518.JPG (246.89 KiB) Viewed 2173 times
The Serial Number stamped into the front right chassis rail.
DSCF2520.JPG
DSCF2520.JPG (190.84 KiB) Viewed 2173 times
The ACM Number.
DSCF2525.JPG
DSCF2525.JPG (222.54 KiB) Viewed 2173 times
As you can see from the photos there are all the usual French army modifications and quite a bit of work needed to bring it back to something like it's former glory. I disassembled the trailer last year and have been cleaning up, repairing, and straightening it out over the last few months.
I picked a few of the bits I need for it up at this years War and Peace Show, so I'm slowly starting to get it sorted.

Cheers,
Chris.
1944 Dodge WC-63
1957 Hotchkiss M-201
1942 Willys MBT
1943 Bantam T3
1943 WLA Type IV

cushman
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Re: War & Peace Trailer

Post by cushman » Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:35 am

And a few more.

Axle casting
DSCF2531.JPG
DSCF2531.JPG (201.72 KiB) Viewed 2070 times
Luckily most of the original Pall nuts are still in place.
DSCF2522.JPG
DSCF2522.JPG (202.8 KiB) Viewed 2070 times
DSCF2626.JPG
DSCF2626.JPG (232.71 KiB) Viewed 2070 times
1944 Dodge WC-63
1957 Hotchkiss M-201
1942 Willys MBT
1943 Bantam T3
1943 WLA Type IV

cushman
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Re: War & Peace Trailer

Post by cushman » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:24 pm

Here's a few of the restoration.

Although they looked pretty cruddy, the brake backing plates were sound. All they needed was a good clean, a going over with a wire cup brush and a bit of light sanding.
DSCF2599.JPG
DSCF2599.JPG (203.98 KiB) Viewed 2014 times
DSCF2597.JPG
DSCF2597.JPG (192.22 KiB) Viewed 2014 times
DSCF2600.JPG
DSCF2600.JPG (233.07 KiB) Viewed 2014 times
DSCF2592.JPG
DSCF2592.JPG (221.01 KiB) Viewed 2014 times
The Axle was in the same condition and only needed the same treatment. However, the hole in one of the axle spring plates had become oval over time and required a little weld around the edge then cleaning out with a drill bit.
DSCF2602.JPG
DSCF2602.JPG (196.65 KiB) Viewed 2014 times
DSCF2603.JPG
DSCF2603.JPG (143.03 KiB) Viewed 2014 times
The axle plate hole repaired and painted with anti rust treatment.
DSCF2623.JPG
DSCF2623.JPG (185.02 KiB) Viewed 2014 times
DSCF2625.JPG
DSCF2625.JPG (213.16 KiB) Viewed 2014 times
The axle turned out well.
DSCF2648.JPG
DSCF2648.JPG (194.01 KiB) Viewed 2014 times
DSCF2649.JPG
DSCF2649.JPG (216.95 KiB) Viewed 2014 times
Cheers,
Chris.
1944 Dodge WC-63
1957 Hotchkiss M-201
1942 Willys MBT
1943 Bantam T3
1943 WLA Type IV

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Bill H.
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Re: War & Peace Trailer

Post by Bill H. » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:00 pm

Coming right along! Nice.
Bill H.

"Each shall seek his own kind, in other words, a bird may love a fish but where would they build a home together?" Tevye, Fiddler on the Roof

1952 Dunbar Kapple M100
1953 Willys M38A1
1962 AMC M422A1
1965 Stevens M416B1 X 2
1967 Kaiser M715

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cjv-35
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Re: War & Peace Trailer

Post by cjv-35 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:07 pm

Nice solid looking trailer. It looks like to me it has M-201 Hotchkiss wheel rims.

cushman
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Re: War & Peace Trailer

Post by cushman » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:14 am

Thanks Bill, I try to keep doing bits when I get the time. As you can see from the photos space is a bit tight in the shed/workshop/paint shop/motor pool.

CJV-35, Yes they are Hotchkiss rims, that's one of the French Army modifications that I will need to sort out. I missed out on a pair of original split rims at this years War & Peace Show but they were pretty worn so I wasn't too disappointed, so I'm still on the lookout for some rims. I did manage to pick up a few other nice bits for the trailer at the show though.

Cheers,
Chris.
1944 Dodge WC-63
1957 Hotchkiss M-201
1942 Willys MBT
1943 Bantam T3
1943 WLA Type IV

cushman
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Re: War & Peace Trailer

Post by cushman » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:30 pm

Okay, now I've finally got round to reassembling the trailer the problems and the questions start.
I was bolting on the rear spring shackle brackets and noticed as I checked the photos I took before I dismantled it, that the brackets were on the wrong way round, see 1st photo on the fifth post above.
When checking TM-10-1281, it says there should be three right hand threaded shackle bushings and one left hand, and that the left hand threaded bushing should be used only in the right rear spring eye.
Now to get to the problem, the spring shackle bracket that was on the rear left has a left hand thread in the bracket. Is this correct? I can't find any mention of a shackle bracket having a left hand thread.
Am I just confused, is there a reason the brackets were on back to front or has someone changed the bracket in the past for a ??

Looking forward to any help,
Chris.
1944 Dodge WC-63
1957 Hotchkiss M-201
1942 Willys MBT
1943 Bantam T3
1943 WLA Type IV

cushman
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Re: War & Peace Trailer

Post by cushman » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:13 am

Nobody?

Okay perhaps I have confused things. Lets forget the orientation of the spring shackle brackets.

Should one of the spring shackle brackets have a left hand thread for the spring shackle bushing assembly to screw into or, as the manual says, should there only be one left hand threaded bushing assembly, and that should screw into the right rear spring eye?

Cheers,
Chris.
1944 Dodge WC-63
1957 Hotchkiss M-201
1942 Willys MBT
1943 Bantam T3
1943 WLA Type IV

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Chuck Lutz
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Re: War & Peace Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:12 pm

The French Army did a great job rebuilding their vehicles they got from the US during/after WWII and they kept them in service quite awhile so it is possible that at some point in time some parts were replaced with what was available. It would be up to you to follow the manual or to let the French Army "repair" stand as-is. I would restore it to original as at some point in time, you or another owner might wand to tear it down and if they follow the manual in terms of which way to install/remove the bushing and use an air-assisted tool, they will have a bigger problem than you probably had in taking it carefully apart!

I don't have my manual here but if it say only the RR is left-handed then that is how I would assemble it.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

cushman
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Re: War & Peace Trailer

Post by cushman » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:32 pm

Thanks Chuck.
I was wondering if the copy of the manual I have was wrong, as I know that there are mistakes in some of the TM's. I also thought the bracket was original to the trailer and that it may have been an early/later change in the spec. Do you know, or has anyone else ever come across this before, or know what the spring shackle bracket could be off?
I will be reassembling the trailer as per the manual, (and putting the brackets on the right way round) now I know it's correct.

Thanks,
Chris.
1944 Dodge WC-63
1957 Hotchkiss M-201
1942 Willys MBT
1943 Bantam T3
1943 WLA Type IV


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