Canadian contract Mbts

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nick peters
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Canadian contract Mbts

Post by nick peters » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:08 am

Hello Everyone
Have any of you guys done any research, or have knowledge of Willys mbts produced for the Canadians. How many were produced ?Serial numbers? ect. Regarding differences to the normal mbt/Bantam. I understand that they relocated the spring hangers and had extra leaves on the springs. They also fitted the kit for tandem towing. Where any other mods done?
regards Nick

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Remko
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Re: Canadian contract Mbts

Post by Remko » Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:08 am

nick peters wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:08 am
Hello Everyone
Have any of you guys done any research, or have knowledge of Willys mbts produced for the Canadians. How many were produced ?Serial numbers? ect. Regarding differences to the normal mbt/Bantam. I understand that they relocated the spring hangers and had extra leaves on the springs. They also fitted the kit for tandem towing. Where any other mods done?
regards Nick
Yup, Mine.....
Jeep front springs, jeep front shocks and a pintle + socket box
Canadian 2nd army and RCEME markings.

Willys Overland made the conversion kit but did not install them (waranty and other legal rules) to make a 1/4 ton to approx 1/2 ton payload trailer.
As far as i know there were 3000 units bought by the canadians,

I also have seen a simple conversion, welding in some round bar from the rear sockmounts to the middle of the rear crossmember and just bolting a spare pintle to it.
Remko

G503 1943 MB
G529 T3 B50633 CX 5713957 serial# 20556 d.o.d. 03-01-1943 (est) With original tandem conversion.

G529 T3 or MBT 111984
G529 T3 or MBT 120745
G529 MBT

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nick peters
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Re: Canadian contract Mbts

Post by nick peters » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:15 am

Hey Remko
Interesting information ,thanks for that. Do you think your springs are original? It is my understanding that an extra leaf was added to the Canadian contract trailers. Also the spring hangers were moved slightly.
regards Nick

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Remko
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Re: Canadian contract Mbts

Post by Remko » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:24 am

nick peters wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:15 am
Hey Remko
Interesting information ,thanks for that. Do you think your springs are original? It is my understanding that an extra leaf was added to the Canadian contract trailers. Also the spring hangers were moved slightly.
regards Nick
My trailer had the front spring hangers placed approx 2 to 3" forward and the rear 2,5 to3,5" further Back to make room for the longer jeep 10 leaf front springs.
Image

The rear is reinforced with a triangel shape plate welded to the frame (Photo Johan Willaert)

Note the hole position where the spring hangers will go. Original the center of the hanger is on the crossmember.
Image
Last edited by Remko on Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Remko

G503 1943 MB
G529 T3 B50633 CX 5713957 serial# 20556 d.o.d. 03-01-1943 (est) With original tandem conversion.

G529 T3 or MBT 111984
G529 T3 or MBT 120745
G529 MBT

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Remko
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Re: Canadian contract Mbts

Post by Remko » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:26 am

I know 4 or 5 original canadian tandem modification trailers and 1 bubba tandem setup.
Remko

G503 1943 MB
G529 T3 B50633 CX 5713957 serial# 20556 d.o.d. 03-01-1943 (est) With original tandem conversion.

G529 T3 or MBT 111984
G529 T3 or MBT 120745
G529 MBT

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nick peters
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Re: Canadian contract Mbts

Post by nick peters » Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:17 pm

Hey Remco
Thanks for clearing that up.
regards Nick

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Re: Canadian contract Mbts

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:09 am

Remko.....

The 8-leaf and 10-leaf springs were the same length, I think you meant to post that the spring mounts were moved further apart to accommodate a 11-leaf jeep rear spring.

Eric Booth up in Canada had some information on the Canadian trailers.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: Canadian contract Mbts

Post by Eric B » Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:53 pm

Hello

Canada rebuilt some of the trailers for 10cwt Capacity by adding their own springs. Willy's originally were going to supply jeep springs and then backed out. I have a CDN Willys which was modified as such. Some also had the trailer kit installed. Canada then decided to build their own trailers rather than rebuild the whole fleet.
Mine was one of 14 modified for a mortar carrier and was pulled behind a Universal Carrier. It would have stayed here in Canada.

Thanks
Eric
Looking for Canadian WW2 Jeep and Trailer Serial Numbers as well as other data.
Thanks

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Re: Canadian contract Mbts

Post by nikkireed » Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:42 am

This contract will be worth for you so have an specific value on it

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Re: Canadian contract Mbts

Post by Eric B » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:15 pm

Hello Nick

Are you looking for a price to sell yours?

Thanks
Eric
Looking for Canadian WW2 Jeep and Trailer Serial Numbers as well as other data.
Thanks

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Re: Canadian contract Mbts

Post by pgcf » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:25 pm

Here is the answer to your original question on 6 Feb.

Willys and Bantam each made approximately 1500 trailers on Canadian Contract CDLV 1663 starting in Oct. 42 - Summer of 1943.

WILLYS INFO:
Serial Numbers: 25449 to 26452 Incl.
Serial Numbers: 29764 to 30262 Incl.
Manual: TM10-1230 2nd Edition dated Oct. 1, 1942 (w/Canadian Contract info labels glued on the cover, index page, and Parts Section cover page)

BANTAM INFO:
Serial Numbers: T3-22668 to T3-24167
Manual: 5P-AB1 dated June 1, 1943 (Canadian version of TM10-1281 2nd Edition dated May 15, 1943)

All these trailers were made to US Specifications and painted with US OD paint. Neither stars nor USA Numbers were applied. The data plates were the respective factory data plates and had no reference to the Canadian Contract, all you have is the Serial Number to go by.

By the Summer of 1943 the US QMC had ended all the specialty contracts including the Willys Marine and Canadian jeep contracts. The only contracts to survive were those related to the Navy and Marine MZ radio jeeps. The rule was everything was built to US Army specifications.

There is nothing in the manuals about the spring upgrade. This, along with the socket and pintle hook modification kit, was applied after the Canadians took possession to meet there needs.

Hope this helps you and the others looking for this information. My sources are the original manuals.

Cheers,
Peter

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Re: Canadian contract Mbts

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:21 pm

Hi Peter..

Do you have any info on Contract LV1617 for 500 units?
Supposed to be a Willys Contract starting at 25058.
It appears it would overlap....
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: Canadian contract Mbts

Post by pgcf » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:55 pm

Chuck,

I don't but maybe some of the Canadian guys do.

If I had to guess, the Canadians might have wanted some modifications like they did on the USMC MB version for their Canadian MB's. The only ones that come to mind would be that their trailers would have 2 blackout (right side) tail lamps and maybe a Canadian data plate. This is pure speculation.

Since your starting number precedes the starting number I posted all I can say is it precedes CDLV 1663.

As US demands increased the QMC had the final say on fulfillment. If the Canadian contracts ended up like the British, some were fulfilled with used "Ex-US Forces" equipment even though they were initiated as a "new" purchase. Others were just not fulfilled as ordered.

If I get hard facts I'll let you know. Please do the same for me.

Cheers,
Peter

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Re: Canadian contract Mbts

Post by EOAL » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:19 pm

Hello Everyone
I have a Bantam tandem trailer serial number 22993 and DOD 7- 1- 43
Parts list number has been changed to 5P - A B 1
Anyone have any information on it?
Thanks Dan

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Re: Canadian contract Mbts

Post by Remko » Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:00 pm

Chuck Lutz wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:09 am
Remko.....

The 8-leaf and 10-leaf springs were the same length, I think you meant to post that the spring mounts were moved further apart to accommodate a 11-leaf jeep rear spring.

Eric Booth up in Canada had some information on the Canadian trailers.
The 8 to 10 leaf conversion was utilized 29 sept 1944 with TB ORD 204

Switching from Std springs and Clips to heavier springs and Clips.

Light / Standard have 8 leaves and heavier have 10 leaves.
Remko

G503 1943 MB
G529 T3 B50633 CX 5713957 serial# 20556 d.o.d. 03-01-1943 (est) With original tandem conversion.

G529 T3 or MBT 111984
G529 T3 or MBT 120745
G529 MBT

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