How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

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km-67
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by km-67 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:10 am

Hello Chuck

Thanks for the answer

The light brackets are screwed.
The shock brackets are also screwed and the shock secured with a split pin.
The triangle holders for the springs have three holes.


I talked to a friend who said it is a Bantam T3 from WW2. But I only have the ACM number.

Did you receive my photos by mail?

I would be super happy about it if you continue to help me

Greetings from Germany
Michael

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:01 pm

Since Bantam upper/lower shock mounts used a threaded pin, washer and nut and the MBT used a cotter pin....yours with the cotter pin would at first glance appear to be an MBT. However, many trailers after WWII had the upper shock mount threaded pin DRILLED to use a cotter pin. You will have to remove the shock from the upper and lower brackets to confirm if this modification was done. That being said, as the brackets are bolted onto the frame, it is possible an extensive depot rebuild swapped the threaded style for the cotter pin style. The lower brackets were often mixed up as we find the style of the axle itself tells us it was also swapped at some point in time with no attention to who the original mfger was.

Since the trailer has an ACM number with a "B" prefix, it would have been sent to Bantam....

What is still unclear is how an early Bantam ended up with a USA number stamped on the drawbars from a later trailer. The answer may be as simple as the trailer going through a post-war rebuild during which a set of drawbars from ANOTHER trailer were installed and at the same time, the shock mounts could have been drilled for a cotter pin.

I would consider the ACM number as the definitive method of telling us it is a Bantam.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by km-67 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:21 pm

Hello Chuck
That is a lot of information. I bought the Bantam in France, so I assume he was there in the army. I looked at a lot of photos of Bantam Trailer and compared them with mine. Everything is alright .
Now my question is still: Can one determine the year of construction on the basis of the ACM number? I can send you photos of the chock holder and the axle by mail if it helps.

Thanks a lot

Greetings Michael
germany

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:51 am

Michael...

Once we can agree that the USA number on the drawbars is not for this trailer, we are left to using the ACM number to estimate the missing data plate info and arrive at a reasonable USA number.

1) remove the shocks and see if there are THREADS where they are attached and you now find holes drilled for COTTER PINS
2) Send me a few pictures of the springs to help identify them
3) send me the city in Germany where you live for my records

Right now I have a basic estimate of this trailer as follows:
It is a Bantam based on the "B" in the ACM number
Based on the ACM number, the serial number would be approximately 6044
Based on the ACM number, the DOD would be approximately 11/27/42
Based on the ACM number and the DOD, the USA number would be approximately 0254877
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by km-67 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:58 pm

Hello Chuck

I am impressed by the information. It is always interesting where vehicles come from. Where you think there is no information about the vehicles. For that I can only express my praise to her.

I have finished my trailer. Only electrical and marking.
As far as I understood that. Ask for the bolt on the chock.
The holder is screwed. But bolten from the chock is smooth and not screwed.
But I will take pictures and send you the photos by mail.
In the mail, I also send you my address

I'm from 33332 Gütersloh Germany

I can only thank you here

greetings from Germany
Michael


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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Greg hanson » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:57 pm

Hi Chuck

How are you ?
it’s Greg Hanson from FRANCE, you helped me there some years ago to identify one of my trailers. It’s was an early MBT.
So i have two more trailers that need some identification for restauration.

First:(used and modified by french army not barn find)
1) No data plate ( need to order to data plate for you )
2) No USA number just WISP on rear panel
3) ACM number 44202 only, non letter before or after
4) Upper shock mount: Threaded and riveted to the frame and the lower is threaded too. ( i think BATAM)
5) The axel tube is welded in the middle
6) 8 springs leaves
7) No taillights and no reflectors ( need to know the good one to put on it, if you can)
8) Standard « L » bolted but i found some trace of welded
9) There some number but to much use for read them
10) Bolts: BC, AA, A
11) No unit numbers

Second Trailer( used and modified by french army not barn find)
1) one date plate (supply service) with first field « make and model: WILLYS MBT »; " serial Number 6772 », « date of delivery: 1942"
2) No USA number just WISP on rear panel too
3) ACM number 74609 only, non letter before or after (not the same on data plate)
4) Upper shock mount: Bolted and cotter pin to the frame and the lower is cotter pin too.
5) The axel tube is center cast in the middle
6) 8 springs leaves
7) No taillights and no reflectors ( need to know the good one to put on it, if you can)
8) Standard « L » bolted
9) There some number but to much use for read them
10) Bolts: AA, A
11) No unit numbers

Best regards for your help
HOPE THAT HELP YOU FOR YOUR DATA BASE

Best regards
slowness equal accuracy, accurary equal speed !!!!!!

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:51 pm

Greg....

A fair estimate for either trailer is the best I can do as I just don't have any examples with known data plate and/or USA numbers close to your ACM numbers....

Bantam
Serial Number........16155
DOD...…………………...4/6/43
USA Number...……...0265112

MBT
Serial Number...…..42855
DOD...…………………..9/43
USA Number...……..0242618

I do occasionally get some new additions to my data base and if I happened to get one with a VERY close ACM, one that had an original data plate on it, I could improve these estimates for you quite a bit I think. As you restore them, wait to order your data plate from Robert de Ruyter and get back to me to see if I have had any solid additions, OK?

FYI, the MBT has a VERY early CAST axle on it that someone who is restoring one from that era would deeply appreciate having. I believe you could easily swap yours for one that is a SMOOTH TUBE (no welded seam).

Don't forget to check the brake drums on those trailers, unless they have been swapped out previously or have sustained some damage, they would be very good to use on your jeep as they have never been "turned". Any MB/GPW brake drum that has been turned out to the legal limit can be used on the trailer as it has no active braking system, only the handbrake.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Greg hanson » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:51 pm

Thanks Chuck,

I will wait to order the data plate, no problem

I have one smooth tube in stock. It's more logic for the MBT, i understand ?

I find another MBT this week end with cast axle with riveted shock mount on frame and cotter pin and cotter pin too on lower mount, i will send you the ACM number in few days.

Thanks so much

Greg from FRANCE
slowness equal accuracy, accurary equal speed !!!!!!

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Johan WILLAERT » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:11 am

Here's another one which I believe to have been made early January 1945 in the 56xxx serial# range with an USA-0825xxx range

Can you confirm or narrow it down more...?

Located: Belgium

1) Data Plate: Missing
2) USA Number: Missing
3) ACM Number: 126390 (NO prefix)
4) Upper Shock Mount: Threaded, Lower shock mount: Cotter Pin
5) Axle: straight tube
6) Springs: 8 leaves in the springs Spring clips with the closure on the bottom
7) Taillights & Reflectors: Arrow Buckets & Doors, CB reflector bezels
8 ) Taillight Mounts: Standard "L" brackets bolted to the tub
9) Numbers: None
10) Bolts: NO markings
11) Unit Numbers: None, ex civilian used

I have long thought the number was 126380 but have checked again and I believe it is actually 126390 !!!!
What say you?

Thx!
MyT3-24Feb19-1.jpg
MyT3-24Feb19-1.jpg (81.49 KiB) Viewed 180 times
MyT3-24Feb19-2.jpg
MyT3-24Feb19-2.jpg (103.57 KiB) Viewed 180 times
MVPA#14204
Huffman D50546 (1942)
Westfield Columbia MG138969 & MG140418 (1943)
HD 42WLA31854 (1943)
Ford GPW272xxx (1945)
Bantam T3 56433(Est) (1945)
John Wood M3A4 17564 (1943)
Johnston Lawn Mower Co RL35-A 1255 (1944)
BSA Mark V* T136102 (1944)
The Liberator

Greg hanson
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Greg hanson » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:17 pm

Chuck

I Check the brake drum on the one new MBT, i have a Ford break Drum.
With original break Mount.
Maybe a reconstruction


Image


Image

Image

Image

Bendix Cover
Image

Original break Handle stamping
Image

AA bolt
Image
slowness equal accuracy, accurary equal speed !!!!!!

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Petr » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:37 pm

Hello, thank you for your admission, to the group. Sorry about my English everything translates to Google, I want to ask you to determine my lifts.
Petr Šedivý Czech Republic
1.Data plate missing.4 holes only.
2.USA Number. None found.
3.ACM. B 19743
4.Upper Shock Mount.threaded and riveted lower shock mounts threaded.
5.Axle seam welded at centre.
6.Springs. 8 leafs
7.No lights
8.Tail light bracket are bolted on.
9.Found next number on the right side of the drawbar 5924.

Link to photos. https://jeepwillys1943.rajce.idnes.cz/Vlek_Bantam_T_3/
Link to photos of our Jeep and Dodge https://jeepwillys1943.rajce.idnes.cz/

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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by brad » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:19 am

Brad Stansbury
Fairland,In 46126
Checker Cab Trailer #755 date 8-13-45
#under spring 146854
Per you Chuck mil # 1008909

Chuck Lutz
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:34 am

Welcome to the G503....ask as many questions as you want here.

Your Bantam is an excellent example of why I ask owners to check the drawbars and the front "lip" where the handbrake is located to see if there are any stampings there.
Examples have been found that are the USA number.
Others have been found with the French ITM number.
The lucky owners like YOU have found the actual Serial Number.

I feel very confident that the drawbars are original to that trailer because the number you found, "5924" would be right in the range of Bantams when I compare the ACM number you found to those trailers in my data base.

So, this is what I think you have:

Bantam
Serial Number...….5924
DOD...………………...11/26/42
USA Number...…...0254757

Can you send my the CITY in CZ Republic where you live for my data base please?
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)

Petr
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Petr » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:52 pm

Thank you very much for the information, I'm very happy for all the information I wrote. I have a question who, there went the numbers to the drawbar when it has a factory number on the frame from the manufacturer. Thank you for the explanation. I live in Prague.

Greg hanson
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Re: How To Identify a WWII MBT or Bantam 1/4 Ton Trailer

Post by Greg hanson » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:24 pm

Hi Chuck

I found this serial number stamping on the drawbar from the MBT below.
What do you think about it ?

Image

Greg
Greg hanson wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:57 pm
Hi Chuck

How are you ?
it’s Greg Hanson from FRANCE, you helped me there some years ago to identify one of my trailers. It’s was an early MBT.
So i have two more trailers that need some identification for restauration.

First:(used and modified by french army not barn find)
1) No data plate ( need to order to data plate for you )
2) No USA number just WISP on rear panel
3) ACM number 44202 only, non letter before or after
4) Upper shock mount: Threaded and riveted to the frame and the lower is threaded too. ( i think BATAM)
5) The axel tube is welded in the middle
6) 8 springs leaves
7) No taillights and no reflectors ( need to know the good one to put on it, if you can)
8) Standard « L » bolted but i found some trace of welded
9) There some number but to much use for read them
10) Bolts: BC, AA, A
11) No unit numbers

Second Trailer( used and modified by french army not barn find)
1) one date plate (supply service) with first field « make and model: WILLYS MBT »; " serial Number 6772 », « date of delivery: 1942"
2) No USA number just WISP on rear panel too
3) ACM number 74609 only, non letter before or after (not the same on data plate)
4) Upper shock mount: Bolted and cotter pin to the frame and the lower is cotter pin too.
5) The axel tube is center cast in the middle
6) 8 springs leaves
7) No taillights and no reflectors ( need to know the good one to put on it, if you can)
8) Standard « L » bolted
9) There some number but to much use for read them
10) Bolts: AA, A
11) No unit numbers

Best regards for your help
HOPE THAT HELP YOU FOR YOUR DATA BASE

Best regards
slowness equal accuracy, accurary equal speed !!!!!!

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