G503 New web page for serial numbers

Discussion, suggestions and issues regarding the sn.g503.com G503 WWII jeep Serial Number Database application and interface.
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Ken Creason
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Re: G503 New web page for serial numbers

Post by Ken Creason » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:07 am

'42 Peep's Motorpool wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:01 am
AFAIK the database is a 'work in progress' at this time. There was still some work
to do and wrinkles to iron out, so I'm sure that in time all will be good.
Indeed. The original implementation was a list on a single page. As it grew,
a pageing system was added. Now the program has been completely rewritten from
the ground up with a user authentication system using a mature and flexible
rapid application development framework that is commonly used and straightforward
to modify. The database itself is actually the same one used in the old interface
with some minor modifications. A user table has been added to accommodate the new
one-to-many relationship between the users account and the serial number data
and a new column was added to the SN table for to (sic) link the users id.
What you see now is a starting foundation that is meant to be built upon with respect
to user feedback.
_Ken
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Re: G503 New web page for serial numbers

Post by Ken Creason » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:29 am

Bart1015 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:51 pm
No one but the jeep owner should enter information into the system...
Bart1015 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:31 am
Easy, Ron could have people submit their jeep info into when registering
as a user for this webpage.
We have no way of verifying information submitted by users, or anything on
the internet for that matter. The SN application makes no claims regarding
ownership or even possession of any object data submitted, merely that some entity
has made the claim that a vehicle or item has been observed to exist.
Bart1015 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:31 am
the information about someone's personal property (jeep) should not be entered
into any system without the owner's permission.
Ownerships change. Any requests will be given due consideration, of course, but
if you want to own a jeep, engine, dataplate or other item without anyone knowing
that it exists or indeed ever has existed, I mean, I'm sure it can be done but,
well... good luck with that.

Posting personal information about another individual online (doxing) is a massive
subject on it's own and applies to all internet media, far beyond the scope
of the G. I recommend against it, as it would be removed as a matter of policy
as soon as possible after it was discovered, with probable responsive actions taken.
_Ken
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Re: G503 New web page for serial numbers

Post by Ken Creason » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:32 am

David wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:59 am
Is it really needed for the database to name the owner anyway?
I'd say just the info about the jeep is enough?
Good point. Anybody can claim ownership of anything on the internet.
_Ken
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Your credibility is determined by the quality of advice that you give; your respectability is determined by how you give it.

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Re: G503 New web page for serial numbers

Post by Ken Creason » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:39 am

Adam wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:52 am
Whats wrong with the old serial number pages?
The interface and access methods have changed for security and ease-of-use
reasons, but not the data really. Hopefully I've addressed your question adequately
in these other responses:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=320804&start=15#p1868674
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=320804&start=30#p1868763
_Ken
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Re: G503 New web page for serial numbers

Post by Ken Creason » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:46 am

Ed Roberts wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:37 pm
Ken, many thanks for what you and Ron, and unknown others are doing on this. Having been around for awhile and observing how the "G" operates, I have every confidence that you and your team will establish the best possible/workable cost effective (time/money) results. May not please everybody, but yeah there well you go. Please hold your course and speed, friend. I much appreciate this.
Safe, Happy and Healthy New Year to you and yours,
Eddie
Thanks Ed, very much appreciated! Made my day :)
_Ken
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Re: G503 New web page for serial numbers

Post by Ken Creason » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:52 am

steviem wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:17 am
True, I noticed MBs with the same DOD as mine and was hoping to find hood numbers too.
Yeah, hood number should probably be high on the Search Options priority list.
Might want to consolidate this one with the SN Range search (and possible others)
into one similar Number Range tool with the addition of a drop-down option...
_Ken
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Re: G503 New web page for serial numbers

Post by Ken Creason » Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:07 am

YLG80 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:51 am
I'm often using a huge G503 database in Excel with the following data:
- the complete G503 dataset up to rec#7103.(I'm regularly updating my dataset)
- all digitized Australian Army jeeps data
- Various post war serial data (WAA Sales data etc ...)
- European databases (not very good though)...
Wow Yves, thanks for the detailed information and suggestions! I will certainly
go over it in detail when I finish with the immediate changes.
Your thoughtful efforts are very much appreciated and will not be wasted.
_Ken
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Your credibility is determined by the quality of advice that you give; your respectability is determined by how you give it.

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Re: G503 New web page for serial numbers

Post by donk_316 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:26 am

I really love this idea.
I appreciate the amount of work you have done.

My main concern is data reliability. I know my hood number, I know a lot of folks make up their hood number and then use that hood number in these types of databases.

I know you have my Jeeps already Yves so I don’t need to look and Tom has my info along with Jim.

I really can’t believe how many people are crying about privacy and names and so on... Jesus people this isn’t 1990. No one is gonna steal your ID and bank account because you put your first name next to your Jeeps information.
GPW 112092 04-30-43 USA 20372531 (orig) and Bantam T3C 21327
GPW 120771 frame
GPW 120743 engine

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Re: G503 New web page for serial numbers

Post by cbennett » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:43 am

Ken, Ron and everyone working on updating or supporting the database,

Thanks for all the work you are doing on this. I have no doubt it will be even better than the old serial number list.

Like Yves, I typically sort this database using these primary criteria, so I can scan for Jeeps that are close:

- Model
- Serial
- DoD
- Hood Number
- Engine Number

I think the typical user is looking for Jeeps close to thiers to verify things like:

- DoD if dash tag missing
- Is the tub number in correct range
- Engine number in correct range (MB)
- Hood number

The sorting on the old database was pretty good. The page interface was a little clunky, but this is still the best list of WW2 Jeeps on the Internet.


Adam and Brett,

Thanks for your comments and concerns on privacy. I have valued your help and advice since joining the G503. I was also concerned about this before I entered all those S/N's and asked Ron if it was OK. He said it was OK and did not violate any rules. There are quite a few other MB/GPW spotters out there entering S/N's into this database. (Not that more of us makes it right)

I added the S/N data I had because I was excited to share what I knew to help others ID their jeeps or jeeps they were evaluating buying. At the time I had been looking for my first MB for about 18 months and was keeping files on each S/N I found. The vast majority of S/N's I entered were from info I found on public websites. If I saw a S/N had already been entered, I did not re-enter it. Going forward I will make sure the seller's name, email or phone number is not in the description even if its given on the public site. Also, I will follow whatever rules Ken and the G503 team establish for the S/N list. Quite honestly, I have not been adding many new S/N's lately because I am too busy trying to get mine back on the road!

This is a great group with a lot of knowledge. Just trying to add to it.

Best Regards,

Cam
Willys Script MB-127897 (CHI) flat top grill, DoD 3-16-42

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Re: G503 New web page for serial numbers

Post by steviem » Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:30 pm

Found lots with the same DOD as mine, i will upload my MB details soon.

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Re: G503 New web page for serial numbers

Post by Bart1015 » Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:37 pm

donk_316 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:26 am

I really can’t believe how many people are crying about privacy and names and so on... Jesus people this isn’t 1990. No one is gonna steal your ID and bank account because you put your first name next to your Jeeps information.
Donk_316

Yes, this is not the 1990s. People have less privacy now and some of us are trying to hold onto whatever privacy we still can hold on to.

No one is crying, that's just what you have decided to call people who don't see things the same way as you.

Before posting inflammatory statements, you may want to take just one second to realize some people value things differently than you do. No one is wrong here, we simply have differences in opinion on the importance of information.

Debate is good, disagreement is also healthy, name calling / insults are inappropriate and detracts from the topic.

But hey, what do I know?

Brett
1942 VEP GPW, J-2 winch, BC-659, 1919a4
1945 GPW, 1943 MBT
Sold - 1967 M151a1, 1943 MB, M416
www.ToThePointPolygraph.com

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Re: G503 New web page for serial numbers

Post by YLG80 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:58 am

I'm also very concerned with privacy, specially to avoid being traced by Google, FB and many others.
But do not fall in the over-controlled systems well described by Ayn Rand in her Atlas Shrugged novel, i.e. in what she called "the European Popular republics" :shock: !

Regarding the owner name:
I'm surprised by the restrictions you are requesting. You are in the country of the 1st amendment.
People are free to publish their real name or ... to publish a fake name like John Doe or Tartempion in Belgium :D
Many jeeps have the owner name set to UNKNOWN, or BLANK or only to the 1st name in the DB.
For once, I've published my real name because I wanted to be contacted if needed.
And I have been contacted several times, only for good reasons 'til now.

Regarding a contact link
In the G503 forum, you have the option to allow only for PM's or allow for PM's AND email.
In the former G503 S/N site, there was only the PM option.

It's up to you to select the appropriate option. You are totally free :wink: .
If you select the PM only option , nobody can see you email address; you write your message through a dedicated anonymous form.
If you select both options, you should use a specific email address, if you do not want to disclose your primary email. It's your choice.
I use two or 3 different email addresses to preserve my primary email.(sometimes with an auto-forward to my primary email.)
For example, I have an account on Facebook using a "junk" email.
Whatever FB, or FB affiliates like Robert Mercer, wants to do with my profile, it's going to fall in a black hole...

The beauty here, is that you are free to protect your privacy by yourself. Waooh!
For the rest, I'm confident in the webmaster who knows how to comply with the legal privacy rules. (GDPR in Europe)

But be cautious with what YOU are publishing in your posts :wink: .
With no email address, I've found the address and tel # and even the USMC military ID number and career file of a G503 user who was publishing hateful posts (at least according to my European sensitivity :D ).

Regarding the information ownership by the jeep owner only.
If an owner finds that his jeep is already registered in the G503 DB, he may always request to the DB record creator to transfer the ownership back to him.
Or he may create a second record for the same serial number.
In the existing DB there are hundredths of double records :wink: .
I don't consider that as a major issue.
For example, and for some strange reason, the Ford GPW Jeep with serial # 6015 has five (5) different records with five (5) different owners :lol:

According to me, building up a new DB user front end based on the old foundations would be good.

Other DB to compare with.
If you want to compare, here is another DB (France):
Data entry form: http://miljeep.fr/modules/data/formsear ... mtype=jeep
Output : http://miljeep.fr/modules/data/listresu ... mmodel=GPW
It's a nice work, but according to me there is not enough useful information in that DB and unfortunately the French owners are often registering only the French Army number, not the historical WWII U.S. serial number.

Steviem has given another DB link: https://www.1945gpw.com/WWII-1945-Ford- ... ialnumbers
Same DB for 1941 to 1945 jeeps.
The output interface is nice, but there is much more information in the G503 DB, the very best !
Here is my jeep, and you will see that I have anonymized my record.
https://www.1943gpw.com/serialnumbers/Details/18783
Yves
Ford GPW 164794 1/4T 12-7-43 - Frame# GPW*239762*
ACM I body#198443
Restored as 1st Army 759th LT B21
ON6YD(ex YB1AUH) MVPA38444

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Re: G503 New web page for serial numbers

Post by Klaas » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:24 am

Ken Creason wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:37 am
Klaas wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:30 am
Could do with a search button. Perhaps in the near future.
There should be a Search button at the top of the page. Right now there is only one method: Serial Number Range.
There will be others, feedback will determine the order in which they are made :(
Hi Ken,
Found the search button. Works great.
Thank you for the huge effort on behalf of all of us!
Klaas
GPW17331 - April 21 1942 - Dallas
BSA Airborne Bicycle R45105
BSA Airborne Bicycle R49171

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Re: G503 New web page for serial numbers

Post by steviem » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:50 pm

Half the boxes are not there to populate, ie hood numer/data plate etc.

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Re: G503 New web page for serial numbers

Post by YLG80 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:12 am

steviem wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:50 pm
Half the boxes are not there to populate, ie hood numer/data plate etc.
@steviem That's a work in progress (WIP)

@Ken
I've received feedback via email from G503 experts. I believe it's worth to share their suggestions here:
Thanks for that feedback.

DATES:
Instructions should require to enter the dates in the US format only, i.e. Month/Day/Year or MMDDYY
This to avoid misinterpretations like this:
Jeep DoD on data plate = 12-7-1943 entered in the European format as 7-12-1943 which will be incorrectly stored in the DB.

IMPROVING DATA ACCURACY
Suggesting to add a HELP link, via a "?" button near each field or via a pdf file with instructions.
The latter would allow the owner to get to his jeep with a paper copy and follow the instructions to discover the important data.
Examples :
If a Willys/Wilson block has a “machined date” data field then the HELP button or help file should include a pic to show what it looks like and where it is and explains what it means.
Also include a pic of the serial numbers locations in the help
The HELP would explain WHERE to find the Serial Number and show a couple GPW and MB stampings to help them see if theirs is “original” or some bubbafied attempt to “match” an engine.
The HELP should show the difference on a GPW serial number if it is a FLAT boss or a STEPPED boss as this really helps to see if the serial number was faked.
The HELP should show a pic of the “GPW-6015” casting number on the GPW block to illustrate that this is NOT the Serial Number!

HELP should remain as short as possible, max 2, 3 pages, I would say so that it would be convenient to print. (including a page to fil up while the owner is discovering his jeep.

HOOD NUMBER
If they have a “hood number” (USA Number), then a field to enter the number is needed together with anothe rfiled telling us if the hood # is original, recovered after paint stripping for example or guessed.!

SERIAL #
The section regarding the Serial Number should show where the owner got the serial number from and if possible have a pic of the GPW rivets and the MB round-head screws.
It should have a photo of both plates.

TUB #
The tub number should also have a box to indicate if it is an ACM Type I or ACM Type II or if it is a GPW tub and if it is a script GPW tub or not.

Once the person has viewed the tutorial they will be much more informed on what and how to enter the data.
We have to remember that the new guys who know the least are more likely to be the guys entering data, so giving them a tutorial would save a LOT of mistakes up front!

In order to save storage space I would suggest to use an automatic picture resizing tool (php script for example) because many users do simply not know how to resize pictures.
On vehiculesmilitaires.com, they have installed and activated such a pic resizing module and it really makes life much easier for many users.

Hope this will help.
Yves
Ford GPW 164794 1/4T 12-7-43 - Frame# GPW*239762*
ACM I body#198443
Restored as 1st Army 759th LT B21
ON6YD(ex YB1AUH) MVPA38444


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