MB42/GPW43 Frankenweenie

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Re: MB42/GPW43 Frankenweenie

Post by 17thAirborne » Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:11 am

That block looks like it came right out of the factory! Nice work.
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)


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Re: MB42/GPW43 Frankenweenie

Post by ww2DAD » Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:21 pm

Ray and Oz,

Thanks. Here's some of the latest pictures. Finally got off my dead a double s and did some work. I made the mistake of assuming that when I took things apart there would be pictures to use to put things back together. Ha - Ha, and I will never do that again. Made the mistake of not marking the oil float and cover before I took it apart a while ago to clean. I just spent the last two days trying to figure out which way the cover on the oil float should face. I read everything from opening pointing toward the hinge location, found in every direction possible, to pointing toward the rear of the engine. There are no definitive clear pictures (closest or clearest is a picture in the Universal manual) or answers so I used the previous pinch marks and came as close as I could think where it should be (mine points to the rear of engine). Same story with PAL nuts. Oz and I have read 1/4 to 1/3 turn after seated to 1 full turn in the TM. He and I will attempt to locate a 3/4/5th shop rebuild manual to do all these small things (one has to exist).

I also put the front plate on today.

Tomorrow will be oil pan and front end closure (gears chain etc.). I'm shooting for the end of the month dropping it into the chassis. Trans, bell housing, and clutch have been finished waiting for this.

Take care,
Mike
Attachments
s1.jpg
PAL nuts and oil float
s2.jpg
Oil float orientation and front plate

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Re: MB42/GPW43 Frankenweenie

Post by 70th Division » Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:55 am

ww2DAD wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:21 pm
Ray and Oz,

Thanks. Here's some of the latest pictures. Finally got off my dead a double s and did some work. I made the mistake of assuming that when I took things apart there would be pictures to use to put things back together. Ha - Ha, and I will never do that again. Made the mistake of not marking the oil float and cover before I took it apart a while ago to clean. I just spent the last two days trying to figure out which way the cover on the oil float should face. I read everything from opening pointing toward the hinge location, found in every direction possible, to pointing toward the rear of the engine. There are no definitive clear pictures (closest or clearest is a picture in the Universal manual) or answers so I used the previous pinch marks and came as close as I could think where it should be (mine points to the rear of engine). Same story with PAL nuts. Oz and I have read 1/4 to 1/3 turn after seated to 1 full turn in the TM. He and I will attempt to locate a 3/4/5th shop rebuild manual to do all these small things (one has to exist).

I also put the front plate on today.

Tomorrow will be oil pan and front end closure (gears chain etc.). I'm shooting for the end of the month dropping it into the chassis. Trans, bell housing, and clutch have been finished waiting for this.

Take care,
Mike
Mike,
That is looking awesome !!

Are you planning to put a copper sleeve , a section of copper tube 1/2" ID, 5/8" OD copper water pipe, 5-1/4" long copper pipe in the distributor tunnel, with some sealant to prevent any possible leaking of coolant into your oil pan ?

Block leaking from that location was fairly common on GPW engines.
I am going to do that on my block, just to insure any issue is taken care of before the rebuild.
My block had coolant in the oil, which may have been from there, or just a bad head gasket.
However, like your block, my block had a lot of stitching repairs done to cracks in it, so I would recommend this simple repair, for good measure after all the work being put into your block.
I discussed that with Oz some time ago, and there was a good post here on the G about this issue and repair.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=149883

Best Regards,
Ray

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Re: MB42/GPW43 Frankenweenie

Post by ww2DAD » Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:43 pm

Ray,
Wow. Never heard of that. Thank you. I will definitely do this. It's a simple solution and will positively bypass some problems. What kind of sealant did you use (I am assuming Permatex of some sort). Thanks for this information and I will examine my block tomorrow to see what I can see before I do this and button up the bottom. Glad there are others out there thinking about these things.
Sincerely,
Mike

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Re: MB42/GPW43 Frankenweenie

Post by 70th Division » Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:05 pm

ww2DAD wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:43 pm
Ray,
Wow. Never heard of that. Thank you. I will definitely do this. It's a simple solution and will positively bypass some problems. What kind of sealant did you use (I am assuming Permatex of some sort). Thanks for this information and I will examine my block tomorrow to see what I can see before I do this and button up the bottom. Glad there are others out there thinking about these things.
Sincerely,
Mike
Hello Mike,

I haven't done it yet, but the guys that have done it on that link mention JB Weld 24 hour epoxy, and another mentions using a Copper Coat sealant.

Wolfman mentions :

"Last thing before driving the tube in place, spray the hole and the outside of the tube with Copper Coat gasket sealer and immediately install the tube. Don't wait for the sealer to dry. The sealer will set up after the tube is in place. A little clean up after but not bad."


I will research some more, but it would be good to be sure that whatever sealant is used, it won't somehow deteriorate and end up in the oil pan.

This is a must on every engine rebuild as many have stated, since the last thing you want to discover is coolant in the fresh oil, on your brand new rebuilt engine !!!


Best Regards,
Ray

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Re: MB42/GPW43 Frankenweenie

Post by ww2DAD » Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:09 pm

Ray,
Thanks for looking into this. Fortunately there are openings to see it go in there and make sure it's in the right place. I may bell the end that faces the distrib a little to make a tight fit. I'll probably stake it there too if I can reach it. Once we figure out what to stick it with, I'll give it a try and post results. Thanks again and take care.

Oh by the way I learned a valuable lesson again today. When the world is upside down nothing fails into the oil pan when it's on. When it's right side up it's like a wide mouth bass. Always happens on the last bolt or stud. It fell into the mouth. So either pull the pan or try to fish it out. Luckily I found my long extension magnet and got it out. That's why in the picture you see the blue paper towel shoved in there. Stupid is all I can say.

Mike
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2.jpg
Stupid is as stupid does

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Re: MB42/GPW43 Frankenweenie

Post by ww2DAD » Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:11 pm

Ray,
Bought a length of 5/8 (OD) x 1/2 (ID) copper water pipe tubing and it slid in there like a glove. Haven't cut it to length or finished it yet. I noticed in my block there was a slight step at the bottom of the distrib shaft hole (might be when they machined it) just above where it comes out to join with the oil pump shaft, that the tubing stopped at so I won't have to bell the top of the tube. As soon as I determine what to use to glue it in with I'll give it a try and let you know.
Regards,
Mike

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Re: MB42/GPW43 Frankenweenie

Post by ww2DAD » Fri Mar 24, 2023 4:39 pm

Ray,
Here's an update on the copper pipe insertion. Things went fairly smooth. My length of pipe turned out to be just around 5 inches. I test fit it several times to get the length right. I have a small step at the end of the distributer shaft channel so I just continued to machine the tube in the lathe (length) until it fit. Great thing was that when I did the cut, it built a small ridge of copper like a lip on the end which prevents the tube from slipping down the channel. After roughing up the tube with 60 grit paper, and then cleaning the channel and roughing it up with 60 grit paper, I jumped the gun and went and bought JB weld to glue it in (sorry was going to wait but got the ich-ies to get it done, standard grade 5000 PSI strength 24 hr dry time). Gooped up the outside of the tube and swabbed some in the channel and it slid right in with a slight push. Took longer to clean up the residual with alcohol than making the tube. Before gluing it in, I checked the tubes ID against the distributer shaft OD to make sure there was no binding, and that when inserted, the distributer sat down on the mounting flange base with no binding. I'll let you know how it turned out tomorrow after the JB dries. Here are a couple of pictures. Didn't need to make a pusher and used a wooden dowel to seat it in the channel.
Take care,
Mike
Attachments
t1.jpg
tube and lip
t2.jpg
Tube from top and bottom of distributer channel

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Re: MB42/GPW43 Frankenweenie

Post by 17thAirborne » Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:32 am

THis will be a great help to those of us who have to tackle this project.
Oz

Feb 43 GPW 98532 USA 20206257
Oct 70 Land Rover Series 2a 25334079G NZ16GF36
http://gpw.castraponere.com/ (My Restoration Page)

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Re: MB42/GPW43 Frankenweenie

Post by 70th Division » Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:41 am

ww2DAD wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 4:39 pm
Ray,
Here's an update on the copper pipe insertion. Things went fairly smooth. My length of pipe turned out to be just around 5 inches. I test fit it several times to get the length right. I have a small step at the end of the distributer shaft channel so I just continued to machine the tube in the lathe (length) until it fit. Great thing was that when I did the cut, it built a small ridge of copper like a lip on the end which prevents the tube from slipping down the channel. After roughing up the tube with 60 grit paper, and then cleaning the channel and roughing it up with 60 grit paper, I jumped the gun and went and bought JB weld to glue it in (sorry was going to wait but got the ich-ies to get it done, standard grade 5000 PSI strength 24 hr dry time). Gooped up the outside of the tube and swabbed some in the channel and it slid right in with a slight push. Took longer to clean up the residual with alcohol than making the tube. Before gluing it in, I checked the tubes ID against the distributer shaft OD to make sure there was no binding, and that when inserted, the distributer sat down on the mounting flange base with no binding. I'll let you know how it turned out tomorrow after the JB dries. Here are a couple of pictures. Didn't need to make a pusher and used a wooden dowel to seat it in the channel.
Take care,
Mike
Hello Mike,

This information is great !!
Well done, as always !
This is the first illustrated example of this repair that I have seen on the G, and will be a guide for others in doing this very important repair !

I have the copper pipe, and will start soon, once my nos main bearings arrive and I can start buttoning up the engine.

Thanks so much for showing us how to do this work !

Outstanding !!!

Best Regards,
Ray

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Re: MB42/GPW43 Frankenweenie

Post by ww2DAD » Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:02 pm

Ray,
Thanks for the kind words. I'm surprised there weren't any more pictures on the web for this repair, but it is simple enough and can be done even after the engine is assembled (my case). The JB 24hr epoxy mix worked great and I don't think that thing is coming out anytime soon. The 24 hr mix gives you 5 to 6 hours before it sets and allows to make adjustments. Just make sure you have the pipe measured and adjusted to where you would like it to sit before gluing it in. Once in it may take a reamer to remove. It's in there solid. Thanks for putting me on to this information. I believe you saved me a heartache.

The little ridge left over from cutting was by accident. I own a lathe and am not a master machinist. I tinker more than anything and have learned things over time. I had cut the pipe with a rounded cutting tool. The rounded tool caused the material to form a small thin ridge when I cut. After dressing the end, that ridge helped me to keep the pipe from sliding down into the channel when I glued it in. It's not needed, but helped me set the length when I did the final cut.

The pipe I used came from Lowes. Turns out they have two thicknesses of 1/2 copper water pipe - thin wall and thick wall. I went cheap and bought the thin wall. I don't think it makes much difference because it's just a sleeve.

On another note, I can only say the reason I am able to do this is because I have the time and the tools. If I didn't I wouldn't even attempt it. I joke with Ozzie about the TM that someone should have put a note in there way back when that stated to future collectors or restorers not to attempt this monkey business without the proper tools or parts. It's 1920/30s technology and you learn something every day. I guess most people just have someone do it for them. I was fortunate to attend high school when they still had automotive classes. It a lost art but at least it's simple.

Good luck on your project and if you have any questions from how I did things just ask. I owe you and Ozzie and everyone else on the forum a favor for all the information. I could have done something like this 30 years ago but work and other things interfered. Sad that you have to wait until you retire and are older to do it, but that's life.

Take care and hope to hear from you soon. Engine is done and will probably be dropped in the chassis tomorrow minus all the externals. Will post pictures of that.

Sincerely,
Mike

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Re: MB42/GPW43 Frankenweenie

Post by ww2DAD » Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:02 pm

And so it begins. One year and one week ago I started tearing this project down. Today the engine went back in. Tomorrow will be adding the remainder of the drive train back to the transfer case. Slide in with no problems and is currently resting on a jack stand and block of wood in the back under the oil pan until I bolt the transmission in. I was easier for me to do it this way instead of setting it down on a table (don't have) or blocks of wood on the ground. Now I can reach everything in the rear. Besides chassis makes a good engine stand.
Mike
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Picture1.jpg
One year and one week later/before and after

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Re: MB42/GPW43 Frankenweenie

Post by 70th Division » Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:20 am

ww2DAD wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:02 pm
Ray,
Thanks for the kind words. I'm surprised there weren't any more pictures on the web for this repair, but it is simple enough and can be done even after the engine is assembled (my case). The JB 24hr epoxy mix worked great and I don't think that thing is coming out anytime soon. The 24 hr mix gives you 5 to 6 hours before it sets and allows to make adjustments. Just make sure you have the pipe measured and adjusted to where you would like it to sit before gluing it in. Once in it may take a reamer to remove. It's in there solid. Thanks for putting me on to this information. I believe you saved me a heartache.

The little ridge left over from cutting was by accident. I own a lathe and am not a master machinist. I tinker more than anything and have learned things over time. I had cut the pipe with a rounded cutting tool. The rounded tool caused the material to form a small thin ridge when I cut. After dressing the end, that ridge helped me to keep the pipe from sliding down into the channel when I glued it in. It's not needed, but helped me set the length when I did the final cut.

The pipe I used came from Lowes. Turns out they have two thicknesses of 1/2 copper water pipe - thin wall and thick wall. I went cheap and bought the thin wall. I don't think it makes much difference because it's just a sleeve.

On another note, I can only say the reason I am able to do this is because I have the time and the tools. If I didn't I wouldn't even attempt it. I joke with Ozzie about the TM that someone should have put a note in there way back when that stated to future collectors or restorers not to attempt this monkey business without the proper tools or parts. It's 1920/30s technology and you learn something every day. I guess most people just have someone do it for them. I was fortunate to attend high school when they still had automotive classes. It a lost art but at least it's simple.

Good luck on your project and if you have any questions from how I did things just ask. I owe you and Ozzie and everyone else on the forum a favor for all the information. I could have done something like this 30 years ago but work and other things interfered. Sad that you have to wait until you retire and are older to do it, but that's life.

Take care and hope to hear from you soon. Engine is done and will probably be dropped in the chassis tomorrow minus all the externals. Will post pictures of that.

Sincerely,
Mike


Hello Mike,

You do great work !

Quick question, can I just cut a pipe to install, or do I need to have it machined ?
I don't have a lathe.

The JB sounds like the way to go, and I will get some.


Best Regards,
Ray

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Re: MB42/GPW43 Frankenweenie

Post by ww2DAD » Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:01 pm

Ray,
No lathe required. I used mine because it was a convenient way of doing things. The small lip I talked about isn't needed either. If you buy the copper pipe dimensioned as you wrote (I used your dimensions) it should be a slip fit right into the channel as is. Mine looks like it was machined because I spun it in the lathe to rough it up with 60 grit sandpaper to give the JB something to stick to - old airplane modeler trick epoxy to metal. The 24 hour JB gives you time to get it in position and if mixed like the instructions say, is thick enough (like heavy molasses) to hold the pipe in any position you want. If worried about it slipping down farther into the block, turn the block on it's side so the channel is almost horizontal (my old harbor freight engine stand always me to spin it to any direction from vertical) so it won't slip down into the block - I don't think this will happen with the JB. Just make sure before you glue it in you've got the length you want. I also taped some 60 grit sandpaper to a 1/2 inch wooden dowel in order to rough up the inside of the channel. Also gives the JB something to stick to. Clean everything with alcohol and you should be good to go.

A cheap turning tool I use to make and use a long time ago in my drill was a rubber stoper about the size of the inside of the tube, turned round on a drill with a hole drilled thru the center, and two washers at either end on a bolt with a nut thru the middle. Put it inside the tube and tighten the washers until tight in the tube. Stick it in the drill, clamp the drill in a vise, and turn whatever you want at low speed. Sort of like a poor man's mini lathe.

Hope this helped and just contact me if you need further. I am more than happy to pass on how I did things. It should work fine.

Sincerely,
Mike
Attachments
Pic.jpg
Poor man's lathe attachment

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Re: MB42/GPW43 Frankenweenie

Post by ww2DAD » Fri Mar 31, 2023 8:10 pm

Okay. So I thought I'd be smart by putting the engine in the chassis and then attaching the transmission. That didn't work. I could not get the two dowel bolts to go in without some whacking with a plastic hammer. So out it came and then I thought well, I'd be smart and put the transmission on a rolling table I had and attach it to the engine. Picture is of the engine and transmission before I joined the two. No dice; wouldn't align either (different angles even after getting the input shaft into the flywheel - my fault). I finally put everything on the floor on wood blocks and with a little wiggling, WALA, it all fit. Still had to drive the dowel bolts in with a plastic hammer because they were hanging up on the backing plate. Now, all tightened down and it took only two minutes to drop it back into the chassis. It ain't coming out again. I will wrestle the transfer case onto the back of the transmission if I have to. Isn't technology great.
Mike
Attachments
Picture1.jpg
It's in to stay


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