MVPA Judging Standards
- Old Pal
- G-Major
- Posts: 863
- Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 4:39 pm
- Location: Kelseyville, CA, USA
Re: MVPA Judging Standards
Looks like I'm putting my project on hold until the next MVPA convention.
In all seriousness, I wish something like this was out when I started my restoration. This will be a great asset to the hobby.
In all seriousness, I wish something like this was out when I started my restoration. This will be a great asset to the hobby.
- Michael O.
- G-Lieutenant General
- Posts: 6131
- Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2003 12:29 am
- Location: The Great State of Nebraska
Re: MVPA Judging Standards
Many others have felt the same way. I purchased my first GPW before any guides were available. The two previous editions of the GPWJS were an excellent guide at the time but contained inaccurate information and didn't get too detailed, which lead me to do years of research and searches for answers on my own (which I continue to do)...to include joining the original g503.com back in 1998 or so. My friend Mike also realized there was an information gap and, along with valuable research in the Ford archives in recent years by individuals such as Tom Wolbolt and with volumes of "new" information coming to light, took the initiative and has tirelessly worked on a more complete guide over the past three years. The final product of his work will be quite informative and will be worth the wait. It will indeed be invaluable to anyone restoring a GPW. Thank you Mike Wright for all of your many hours of compiling and organizing data and photographs!Old Pal wrote:I wish something like this was out when I started my restoration. This will be a great asset to the hobby.
I am intimately familiar with the various drafts of his work. Can I be of any assistance to you regarding the questions you have regarding your GPW restoration? I'm not an expert, nor do I "know it all", but do consider myself quite knowledgeable on the subject.
Let me know.
Michael O’Connell
Too many jeeps…and a Dodge.
MVPA 13861
Too many jeeps…and a Dodge.
MVPA 13861
- Old Pal
- G-Major
- Posts: 863
- Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 4:39 pm
- Location: Kelseyville, CA, USA
Re: MVPA Judging Standards
I do my best to ask any question I can't find the answer to her on the forum. Many times I cannot find the answer. I will take you up on this. Check your messages. Thanks!Michael O. wrote:Can I be of any assistance to you regarding the questions you have regarding your GPW restoration? Let me know.
- Chuck Lutz
- Gee Addict
- Posts: 26829
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
- Location: Jeep Heaven
Re: MVPA Judging Standards
Given the complexity of the jeep parts/changes/etc. we really are no where the Vette or Mustang guys in terms of what is CORRECT. The next version of the GPWJS will bring us up to date, but as new info surfaces....we will have to keep an open mind on what may be correct for OUR own jeep. A true work in progress...
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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- US Army Major (Ret)
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- Location: Owasso, OK
Re: MVPA Judging Standards
Hi Folks,
I wish to clarify a couple points. This is a Restoration guide. The Point Value Will Not be in the final. That way the Restoration Guide and Judging values are separate and can both be updated independently as needed. There is still lots of work to do on this so don’t take the “Teaser” as gospel
Sorry for any confusion, Just want to give folks an idea of what the MVPA is working towards
Mike
I wish to clarify a couple points. This is a Restoration guide. The Point Value Will Not be in the final. That way the Restoration Guide and Judging values are separate and can both be updated independently as needed. There is still lots of work to do on this so don’t take the “Teaser” as gospel
Sorry for any confusion, Just want to give folks an idea of what the MVPA is working towards
Mike
Mike Wright
SEEKING MOTOR # GPW 2636
MVPA# 4341
GPW 2636, DOD 28 FEB 42, Reg# 2055811 (est)
GPW 104331 DOD 31 MAR 43, Reg# 20369321 (est)
MB-101008 DOD 27 NOV 41, Reg# W-2032462 (Original)
MB 438075, DOD 1 MAY 45, Reg# 20704591 (Original)
Converto ABN Dump 0886168
M2-HB gun trailer
SEEKING MOTOR # GPW 2636
MVPA# 4341
GPW 2636, DOD 28 FEB 42, Reg# 2055811 (est)
GPW 104331 DOD 31 MAR 43, Reg# 20369321 (est)
MB-101008 DOD 27 NOV 41, Reg# W-2032462 (Original)
MB 438075, DOD 1 MAY 45, Reg# 20704591 (Original)
Converto ABN Dump 0886168
M2-HB gun trailer
- Old Pal
- G-Major
- Posts: 863
- Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 4:39 pm
- Location: Kelseyville, CA, USA
Re: MVPA Judging Standards
Hopefully sooner! A lot can happen between now and then.Mike Wright wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:14 am
Should be in print ready to be purchased from the MVPA by next convention, if not sooner
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- G-First Sergeant
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- Location: Santa Ana CA
Re: MVPA Judging Standards
I agree. I also believe that what we doing is keeping history alive.
- rondo
- LTC, U.S. Army
- Posts: 782
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:07 am
- Location: Boise, Idaho
Re: MVPA Judging Standards
I would not have my vehicles judged because of the judger.
This is intentionally vague as to not cause drama, but a friend had his MV 'judged', and he did not get 100%. When asked why, it was because 'no one gets 100%'. we have to find something wrong. WTF kind of mentality is that? they said his vehicle was the best restored example they have ever seen. No perfect score for you!
This is intentionally vague as to not cause drama, but a friend had his MV 'judged', and he did not get 100%. When asked why, it was because 'no one gets 100%'. we have to find something wrong. WTF kind of mentality is that? they said his vehicle was the best restored example they have ever seen. No perfect score for you!
42 GPW; 41WC6
"moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men"
"moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men"
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- Jeep Heaven
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Re: MVPA Judging Standards
For the most part the Judges are OK, But...
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
- Mark Tombleson
- MZ Radio Operator
- Posts: 9837
- Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 7:58 pm
- Location: Selah, Washington
Re: MVPA Judging Standards
This is an issue that has come up from time to time. Lots of jeeps, some of everything else. Volunteers do the judging and sometimes no one knowledgeable in that particular vehicle is around to judge. I have also seen guys that only bring their vehicle to display, not wanting the hassle of being judged.rondo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:25 pmI would not have my vehicles judged because of the judger.
This is intentionally vague as to not cause drama, but a friend had his MV 'judged', and he did not get 100%. When asked why, it was because 'no one gets 100%'. we have to find something wrong. WTF kind of mentality is that? they said his vehicle was the best restored example they have ever seen. No perfect score for you!
Here is another thread on the topic... I even tell my experience with judging here.
Just remember, having the experience of being judged is not for everybody and you need to not only prepare properly, have an outstanding restoration, but you also need to answer questions on any deviations your vehicle has. Any new judging book will be welcomed as you will know what is correct and incorrect as sometime it is not clear.
viewtopic.php?t=223853
MB-NAVY-MZ-1 352625 - 07/20/44 (DOD est.)
U.S.N. 133818
2nd place Restored Class 2008 Portland Convention
MVPA Hall of Fame - 2013
U.S.N. 133818
2nd place Restored Class 2008 Portland Convention
MVPA Hall of Fame - 2013
- Chuck Lutz
- Gee Addict
- Posts: 26829
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
- Location: Jeep Heaven
Re: MVPA Judging Standards
One need not have a thin skin to have their jeep judged. It isn't just a beauty contest or the jeep with the most crap piled into it would win.
Much of it boils down to whose research and advice on what is correct for YOUR jeep and unfortunately a lot of that is based on opinion. Start with any TM for your contract jeep and then the SNL closest to your DOD. Read and understand Nabholtz from cover to over.
The MB guys have the Lloyd & Company books to try and find the answer questions on what is correct.
Those like Tom who actually dug up info a the Ford Benson Archives was VERY explicit in answering questions with either a quote directly from Ford correspondence, documents and blueprints OR he was only able to tell you "based on my" (interpretations of data or records for only one factory answers) answers, we have had the luxury in the GPW community of his work.
Had being the operative word since he got kicked off the gee and the gee FB for something we've been promised would come to light but is being swept under the rug it seems.
Back to Judging though....it is a team effort with one or two MB guys and one or two GPW guys. Be prepared to proffer evidence of anything you have that deviates from accepted factory or even motorpool jeep builds because it isn't up to them to prove it is wrong, it is up to YOU to prove it is correct!
If you remember Nadia Comanici, she's the only gymnast to score a perfect "10"...rarely since have perfect scores on anything. I understand that not getting 100% is frustrating but overall, how do YOU know your jeep was a 100% point getter anyway?
Much of it boils down to whose research and advice on what is correct for YOUR jeep and unfortunately a lot of that is based on opinion. Start with any TM for your contract jeep and then the SNL closest to your DOD. Read and understand Nabholtz from cover to over.
The MB guys have the Lloyd & Company books to try and find the answer questions on what is correct.
Those like Tom who actually dug up info a the Ford Benson Archives was VERY explicit in answering questions with either a quote directly from Ford correspondence, documents and blueprints OR he was only able to tell you "based on my" (interpretations of data or records for only one factory answers) answers, we have had the luxury in the GPW community of his work.
Had being the operative word since he got kicked off the gee and the gee FB for something we've been promised would come to light but is being swept under the rug it seems.
Back to Judging though....it is a team effort with one or two MB guys and one or two GPW guys. Be prepared to proffer evidence of anything you have that deviates from accepted factory or even motorpool jeep builds because it isn't up to them to prove it is wrong, it is up to YOU to prove it is correct!
If you remember Nadia Comanici, she's the only gymnast to score a perfect "10"...rarely since have perfect scores on anything. I understand that not getting 100% is frustrating but overall, how do YOU know your jeep was a 100% point getter anyway?
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- Michael O.
- G-Lieutenant General
- Posts: 6131
- Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2003 12:29 am
- Location: The Great State of Nebraska
Re: MVPA Judging Standards
Chuck, I agree with your comments regarding Tom. Tom contributed a great deal to this site and provided a vast wealth of knowledge to those here. I’m glad that Tom has other outlets to share his knowledge, mainly through his website and FB page, but would welcome his participation here again!
Michael O’Connell
Too many jeeps…and a Dodge.
MVPA 13861
Too many jeeps…and a Dodge.
MVPA 13861
- Joe Friday
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1230
- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:28 am
- Location:
Re: MVPA Judging Standards
Joel said:
Since Tom has been banned, I have decided to ban myself, so don't concern yourself about drawings being shared on the G.
I'm not sure what message that was meant to convey, but if it was directed at me, no worries.there is more to a restoration than factory drawings
Since Tom has been banned, I have decided to ban myself, so don't concern yourself about drawings being shared on the G.
2018 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #419
- Boyso
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1392
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- Location: Quebec, Canada
Re: MVPA Judging Standards
Any updates on a timeframe for releasing the GPW judging standards book?
44 GPW 231738 10/23/1944
MVPA #36162
MVPA #36162
- Chuck Lutz
- Gee Addict
- Posts: 26829
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
- Location: Jeep Heaven
Re: MVPA Judging Standards
Maybe Joe Friday is onto something here...I know of another long-standing gee member who is also fed up with the Tom Affair and is thinking of no longer contributing his extensive GPW knowledge any longer as well. First it was Luc, now Tom.
Maybe if we all knew WHY and WHO banned Tom it might be different but right now it could be for spitting on the sidewalk or a double homicide.
Any one else feel that this smells fishy? I know Tom well enough to doubt he broke the Ten Commandments, so what gives here.
Stonewalling a real explanation reminds me of political or Big Business where the cover-up is worse than the original "crime".
Maybe if we all knew WHY and WHO banned Tom it might be different but right now it could be for spitting on the sidewalk or a double homicide.
Any one else feel that this smells fishy? I know Tom well enough to doubt he broke the Ten Commandments, so what gives here.
Stonewalling a real explanation reminds me of political or Big Business where the cover-up is worse than the original "crime".
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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