MVPA Judging Standards

Create a thread to track the progress of you MB/GPW restoration progress. Previously a General Discussion board.
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Old Pal
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Re: MVPA Judging Standards

Post by Old Pal » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:33 am

Looks like I'm putting my project on hold until the next MVPA convention. :)

In all seriousness, I wish something like this was out when I started my restoration. This will be a great asset to the hobby.


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Michael O.
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Re: MVPA Judging Standards

Post by Michael O. » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:08 am

Old Pal wrote:I wish something like this was out when I started my restoration. This will be a great asset to the hobby.
Many others have felt the same way. I purchased my first GPW before any guides were available. The two previous editions of the GPWJS were an excellent guide at the time but contained inaccurate information and didn't get too detailed, which lead me to do years of research and searches for answers on my own (which I continue to do)...to include joining the original g503.com back in 1998 or so. My friend Mike also realized there was an information gap and, along with valuable research in the Ford archives in recent years by individuals such as Tom Wolbolt and with volumes of "new" information coming to light, took the initiative and has tirelessly worked on a more complete guide over the past three years. The final product of his work will be quite informative and will be worth the wait. It will indeed be invaluable to anyone restoring a GPW. Thank you Mike Wright for all of your many hours of compiling and organizing data and photographs!

I am intimately familiar with the various drafts of his work. Can I be of any assistance to you regarding the questions you have regarding your GPW restoration? I'm not an expert, nor do I "know it all", but do consider myself quite knowledgeable on the subject.

Let me know.
Michael O’Connell

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Old Pal
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Re: MVPA Judging Standards

Post by Old Pal » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:18 am

Michael O. wrote:Can I be of any assistance to you regarding the questions you have regarding your GPW restoration? Let me know.
I do my best to ask any question I can't find the answer to her on the forum. Many times I cannot find the answer. I will take you up on this. Check your messages. Thanks!

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Chuck Lutz
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Re: MVPA Judging Standards

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:06 pm

Given the complexity of the jeep parts/changes/etc. we really are no where the Vette or Mustang guys in terms of what is CORRECT. The next version of the GPWJS will bring us up to date, but as new info surfaces....we will have to keep an open mind on what may be correct for OUR own jeep. A true work in progress...
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

Mike Wright
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Re: MVPA Judging Standards

Post by Mike Wright » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:02 am

Hi Folks,
I wish to clarify a couple points. This is a Restoration guide. The Point Value Will Not be in the final. That way the Restoration Guide and Judging values are separate and can both be updated independently as needed. There is still lots of work to do on this so don’t take the “Teaser” as gospel :!:
Sorry for any confusion, Just want to give folks an idea of what the MVPA is working towards :!: :D

Mike
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Old Pal
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Re: MVPA Judging Standards

Post by Old Pal » Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:01 am

Mike Wright wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:14 am

Should be in print ready to be purchased from the MVPA by next convention, if not sooner :!:
Hopefully sooner! A lot can happen between now and then. :)

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Re: MVPA Judging Standards

Post by 54WYLLYSJEEP » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:10 pm

Ben Dover wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:40 pm
Winning is not everything, participating in this hobby is what it is all about.
And Nibs, there is more to a restoration than factory drawings. It takes talent to produce a show winner and a bit more to produce one that is turn key.
I agree. I also believe that what we doing is keeping history alive.

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Re: MVPA Judging Standards

Post by rondo » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:25 pm

I would not have my vehicles judged because of the judger.
This is intentionally vague as to not cause drama, but a friend had his MV 'judged', and he did not get 100%. When asked why, it was because 'no one gets 100%'. we have to find something wrong. WTF kind of mentality is that? they said his vehicle was the best restored example they have ever seen. No perfect score for you! :lol:
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Re: MVPA Judging Standards

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:46 pm

For the most part the Judges are OK, But...
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Re: MVPA Judging Standards

Post by Mark Tombleson » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:53 pm

rondo wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:25 pm
I would not have my vehicles judged because of the judger.
This is intentionally vague as to not cause drama, but a friend had his MV 'judged', and he did not get 100%. When asked why, it was because 'no one gets 100%'. we have to find something wrong. WTF kind of mentality is that? they said his vehicle was the best restored example they have ever seen. No perfect score for you! :lol:
This is an issue that has come up from time to time. Lots of jeeps, some of everything else. Volunteers do the judging and sometimes no one knowledgeable in that particular vehicle is around to judge. I have also seen guys that only bring their vehicle to display, not wanting the hassle of being judged.

Here is another thread on the topic... I even tell my experience with judging here.

Just remember, having the experience of being judged is not for everybody and you need to not only prepare properly, have an outstanding restoration, but you also need to answer questions on any deviations your vehicle has. Any new judging book will be welcomed as you will know what is correct and incorrect as sometime it is not clear.

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Chuck Lutz
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Re: MVPA Judging Standards

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:41 pm

One need not have a thin skin to have their jeep judged. It isn't just a beauty contest or the jeep with the most crap piled into it would win.
Much of it boils down to whose research and advice on what is correct for YOUR jeep and unfortunately a lot of that is based on opinion. Start with any TM for your contract jeep and then the SNL closest to your DOD. Read and understand Nabholtz from cover to over.

The MB guys have the Lloyd & Company books to try and find the answer questions on what is correct.

Those like Tom who actually dug up info a the Ford Benson Archives was VERY explicit in answering questions with either a quote directly from Ford correspondence, documents and blueprints OR he was only able to tell you "based on my" (interpretations of data or records for only one factory answers) answers, we have had the luxury in the GPW community of his work.

Had being the operative word since he got kicked off the gee and the gee FB for something we've been promised would come to light but is being swept under the rug it seems.

Back to Judging though....it is a team effort with one or two MB guys and one or two GPW guys. Be prepared to proffer evidence of anything you have that deviates from accepted factory or even motorpool jeep builds because it isn't up to them to prove it is wrong, it is up to YOU to prove it is correct!
If you remember Nadia Comanici, she's the only gymnast to score a perfect "10"...rarely since have perfect scores on anything. I understand that not getting 100% is frustrating but overall, how do YOU know your jeep was a 100% point getter anyway?
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Michael O.
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Re: MVPA Judging Standards

Post by Michael O. » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:08 am

Chuck, I agree with your comments regarding Tom. Tom contributed a great deal to this site and provided a vast wealth of knowledge to those here. I’m glad that Tom has other outlets to share his knowledge, mainly through his website and FB page, but would welcome his participation here again!
Michael O’Connell

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Joe Friday
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Re: MVPA Judging Standards

Post by Joe Friday » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:42 am

Joel said:
there is more to a restoration than factory drawings
I'm not sure what message that was meant to convey, but if it was directed at me, no worries.
Since Tom has been banned, I have decided to ban myself, so don't concern yourself about drawings being shared on the G.
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Boyso
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Re: MVPA Judging Standards

Post by Boyso » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:45 am

Any updates on a timeframe for releasing the GPW judging standards book?
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Chuck Lutz
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Re: MVPA Judging Standards

Post by Chuck Lutz » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:00 am

Maybe Joe Friday is onto something here...I know of another long-standing gee member who is also fed up with the Tom Affair and is thinking of no longer contributing his extensive GPW knowledge any longer as well. First it was Luc, now Tom.

Maybe if we all knew WHY and WHO banned Tom it might be different but right now it could be for spitting on the sidewalk or a double homicide.

Any one else feel that this smells fishy? I know Tom well enough to doubt he broke the Ten Commandments, so what gives here.

Stonewalling a real explanation reminds me of political or Big Business where the cover-up is worse than the original "crime".
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947


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