Need help with an A2

1959 - 1978, M151, M151A1, M151A2, Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the M151.
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George E
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Need help with an A2

Post by George E » Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:33 pm

First off, an apology for the length of this post but you'll understand. Second, I'm an MB man. I have no experience with a 151. I was asked to help get a 151 running as it had been garaged for several years. After some cleaning and refueling we were actually able to start the engine and have it "running". It ran rough and we filled the garage with black smoke. Several more tries and it was running fairly well for about 30 seconds then back to smoke again. I believe that the fuel system parts were all original, including all the rubber parts. The California gas we used contains ethanol and I expect it ate up the diaphragms. I put in a new accelerator pump and again it ran well for a minute and then back to the smoke and poor idle. When I opened up the carb, i drained out black gasoline. More checking, gas tank is clean with no rust. Then I went to check the oil again...smells like gasoline. I am thinking that the ethanol took out the fuel pump diaphragm and we are swapping fluids between the carb and oil pan. So, is there something else I am ignorantly missing or does this seem reasonable?

Now the kicker...shortly after finding the oil, the owner passed away from cancer. His wish was to ride in his jeep one more time and I wasn't able to get it running...

The family is wanting to sell it and they of course would get more if it was running. It appears to be complete and original but again I am not well versed in the 151 family and have no clue as to value. Any suggestions or thoughts on possible causes and repairs would be greatly appreciated

Thank you in advance for any information you could provide.
George

43ish MB


Rickf
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Re: Need help with an A2

Post by Rickf » Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:45 pm

George, sorry to hear about your friend. Be sure to check the air filter, it may be full of gasoline from the vent tube that goes from the fuel pump to the air cleaner. If the diaphragm went out in the pump it would have sent a lot of gas up that tube. You say it had "Black" gas in it. That tells me that the rubber fuel lines are gone also and need to be replaced. The air cleaner will be the same setup as the MB with the oil in the bottom. If you take the bowl off of the carburetor be very careful you do not lose the jet that is setting in the center of the bowl. It is about 2 1/2 inches long and will fall right out! Also check the float setting, it should be 9/32"
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

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George E
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Re: Need help with an A2

Post by George E » Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:26 pm

Thank you Rick, I had not considered the air filter and lines but I will definitely include it in my next visit. As far as the jet in the bowl, we've met already. Like you say it fell right out but luckily after doing a lot of work on Carter WO's I was prepared for it and kept everything contained. I went through the carb looking for any problems but everything looked correct. The owner did have a brand new carb but it was for the pre-emission controlled 151 and had an internal defect that wasn't repairable.

Thanks for the information, will post if there are any further discoveries or successes
George

43ish MB

Fil Bonica
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Re: Need help with an A2

Post by Fil Bonica » Sat Jun 04, 2022 5:41 pm

Rick rebuilds carbs so why not have him fix it?
If there is gas in the air filter why not replace fuel pump.
They can also be rebuilt by Then and Now in Weymouth MA
For about $110.00
Fil Bonica

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George E
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Re: Need help with an A2

Post by George E » Sun Jun 05, 2022 11:20 am

Yeah, good idea but as I don't expect to get reimbursed I am limiting my expenditures...
George

43ish MB

Rickf
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Re: Need help with an A2

Post by Rickf » Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:14 pm

George, If you need any help with the carb or in general on the engine send me a phone number by PM. I don't charge for free advice. Especially under these circumstances, I just got done helping the widow of the man who owned the garage I worked out of for many years after he passed.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

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George E
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Re: Need help with an A2

Post by George E » Mon Jun 06, 2022 4:17 pm

Let me see how far I get and you may be hearing from me.
Thank you Rick, Much appreciated.
George

43ish MB

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George E
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Re: Need help with an A2

Post by George E » Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:24 pm

Sort of an update...Went to the 151 today and did some follow up. pulled the fuel pump and the diaphragm is deteriorated and split. Apparently it failed just after I put the new diaphragm in. While I can smell gas in the oil, the air filter was relatively clean and I didn't see any evidence of deterioration in any of the lines. As soon as I find a new pump (that isn't from Thailand), I'll change the oil and filter and try to get things running.

Thanks to all for input and suggestions.
George

43ish MB

hondo100
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Re: Need help with an A2

Post by hondo100 » Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:50 am

Terrill Machine in De Leon Texas rebuilds fuel and vacuum pumps using modern materials. Last one I had done was ~$100.

Fil Bonica
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Re: Need help with an A2

Post by Fil Bonica » Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:08 am

You can buy an Airtex 60577 for less than $25.00 that is a good substitute minus vent line.
Cheaper than rebuild.


Fil Bonica

Rickf
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Re: Need help with an A2

Post by Rickf » Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:11 pm

Prices have gone up just a bit since that price a year ago. Almost double that now and just like the water pumps they are starting to dry up. I am still not fully convinced of the compatibility of those pumps as far as the way the foot contacts the cam. It works but I don't think it runs flat on the cam or on the right angle.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

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George E
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Re: Need help with an A2

Post by George E » Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:50 pm

Update on the A2 project
As soon as I received the new fuel pump, I went back over and resumed the effort to get it running. Once I managed to get a tight seal on the pump fittings we began cranking the engine. Never did get it to fire even though I verified that I had spark at the plugs. Back today after going through the carb for problems. Long story shorter, turns out the fuel filter was indeed doing its job trying to clean out the contaminated gasoline. Then when we tried to start it, it released the contamination back into the system. Removed the filter temporarily and suddenly with the clean gas, it began to fire. Took it a while for everything to remember how to run but when I left it was indeed running with no serious problems. Next week a new fuel filter, oil and filter change and If I can get it to back out of the garage I am done.

Thanks to all for your suggestions and offers of assistance, it was very much appreciated!
George

43ish MB

Rickf
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Re: Need help with an A2

Post by Rickf » Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:14 am

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

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muttguru
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Re: Need help with an A2

Post by muttguru » Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:15 pm

""Long story shorter, turns out the fuel filter was indeed doing its job trying to clean out the contaminated gasoline. Then when we tried to start it, it released the contamination back into the system. Removed the filter temporarily and suddenly with the clean gas, it began to fire.""


Hmmm....
I'm sure there's a message in that comment. And the message is.... if you have an in-line filter and you're having problems starting or running your vehicle, rip out that filter and stick it in the rubbish bin. And DON'T replace it.

Ken :D
Contact address - muttguru@aol.com
Always wanted - Details and pictures of M416 Trailer data plates & M151 data plates & body-tags for my research. Thanks!

Rickf
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Re: Need help with an A2

Post by Rickf » Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:04 pm

No, replace it with a new one because it DID it's job! I can't tell you how many carbs I opened up and found full of silt from the tank that the original filter let through but an aftermarket inline filter stops. And it takes a LOT of stuff to plug up a quality inline filter. I am not talking about those cheap screw together racing filters. Had one of those on a friends mutt brand new that failed and caused all kinds of problems. This is probably the only thing Ken and I do not agree on but I have been using inline filters on just about every restoration I have ever worked on and have never had a filter related failure that was not due to it plugging up from basically doing its job. If that filter did not plug up then where would that crap have gone?
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone


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