My new 1954 M38A1

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70th Division
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Re: My new 1954 M38A1

Post by 70th Division » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:47 pm

Hello,


Beautiful, that is great !!
Your post was like a suspense thriller, then the tv went out :D :D :D

Congratulations on your marriage, excellent work !!!


Looking forward to your updates !
I just bought an M-38A1 too.

Best Regards,

Ray


Maverick1701
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Re: My new 1954 M38A1

Post by Maverick1701 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:13 am

So update for 7/29.

I sold my M35A2 6x6 yesterday and am going to use that money to rebuild the motor or possibly do a motor swap if I can find something cool/small/diesel.
Currently I'm being quoted between 4-4500 for the full rebuild including machine work. Is this pretty much in line with what everyone else is seeing? (I expected around 4K).
Chris

1997 4x4 Ford Expedition

2003 KLR650 Motorbike

1967 6x6 Kaiser Jeep M35A2 w/winch

1954 M38A1

M998 HMMWV (work toy)

IvorGPW
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Re: My new 1954 M38A1

Post by IvorGPW » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:23 am

What are they rebuilding for 4,500, the shop I go to here in Utah costs 1,800 for all the machine work and for them completely assemble it.
Tate Christensen
1944 Ford GPW #234613 USMC Radio jeep
1943 Willys MB #263100
1945 Willys CJ2A #10226
1941 Ford GP #9687

Maverick1701
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Re: My new 1954 M38A1

Post by Maverick1701 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:22 am

IvorGPW wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:23 am
What are they rebuilding for 4,500, the shop I go to here in Utah costs 1,800 for all the machine work and for them completely assemble it.
That's a great price. Unfortunately in my area all the prices I was quoted was 3700-4500 (as a worst case scenario). I don't have an item-by-item list because we don't know what we can re-use vs replace until they break open the motor. In general, the shop is uninstalling the motor, doing the full rebuild (machining surfaces/bores/etc, new pistons/rings/con rods/etc and everything involved with that, new bearings, and several other things) and re-installing the motor into the jeep.
Chris

1997 4x4 Ford Expedition

2003 KLR650 Motorbike

1967 6x6 Kaiser Jeep M35A2 w/winch

1954 M38A1

M998 HMMWV (work toy)

Maverick1701
G-First Sergeant
G-First Sergeant
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:35 pm
Location: Memphis, Texas

Re: My new 1954 M38A1

Post by Maverick1701 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:46 pm

A few pictures from the jeeps departure via tow-truck:
jeep 1.jpg
jeep 2.jpg
jeep 3.jpg
Chris

1997 4x4 Ford Expedition

2003 KLR650 Motorbike

1967 6x6 Kaiser Jeep M35A2 w/winch

1954 M38A1

M998 HMMWV (work toy)

70th Division
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Re: My new 1954 M38A1

Post by 70th Division » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:20 pm

Hello Chris,

I am glad to see you are working on your great jeep again !!

Keep us updated, it looks like a great jeep to restore !!
Those new tires look fantastic !!!

Ray

Maverick1701
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Location: Memphis, Texas

Re: My new 1954 M38A1

Post by Maverick1701 » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:41 pm

Well good news on the winch front. Over the weekend I was randomly looking around facebook marketplace and came across a complete pto winch setup for a GREAT price (better than anything I have seen in my area). I hooked up with the seller and we made the deal happen. I ended up with a koenig 100 winch, koenig 51 PTO, all the shafts, and the carrier bearing. He also threw in a ton of old jeep stuff (solex carbs, brake parts, etc).

winch 3.jpg
winch 6.jpg
winch 5.jpg
Chris

1997 4x4 Ford Expedition

2003 KLR650 Motorbike

1967 6x6 Kaiser Jeep M35A2 w/winch

1954 M38A1

M998 HMMWV (work toy)

Maverick1701
G-First Sergeant
G-First Sergeant
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:35 pm
Location: Memphis, Texas

Re: My new 1954 M38A1

Post by Maverick1701 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:56 am

*last week*
I have been hunting a PTO winch setup for about 5 years now.
Last month I scored a Koenig 100 pto winch setup off facebook marketplace for a great price. Usually pto winches in my area run around 1K-1500, this one I picked up for $500. It came with the winch, koenig 51 pto, and the shafts. I knew it needed some work here and there so I was prepared for all that.
The guy also threw in a ton of random jeep parts he had sitting around: carb, set of drive shafts, brake kits, brake backing plates etc.
Today I finally got around to opening up and going through everything to see what needs to be done. The winch has a bent wishbone on the lever side but that's the only real issue. I started soaking everything in PB blaster as I plan to disassemble and inspect everything before I install it on my M38A1.
The PTO (koenig 51) is a little different story. It is jammed partially open. I can't close the case and I can't get it to open any further. The pto shaft yoke has missing the set screw but somehow the yoke still won't come off, so that might be welded but hopefully just rusted in place. Once I figure out what is binding in the case, I can get it closed and check out the yoke situation. I have a koenig 41 I cleaned up a while back that I can use for parts if needed (I kept it specifically for this purpose..parts).
Also someone replaced one of the pipe plugs with a zerk fitting, plugged the holes that allow transfer case lubricant to flow through, and apparently has been using grease to lubricate the PTO (It's going to be a mess to clean-up). I don't really know how well that worked...I'll be able to see the wear once I figure out how to open it up. Was this a common mod to these PTOs? All my other PTOs I ran normal lubricant.
the shafts are in good shape but might need a new u-joint or two.


*Edit to yesterday*
Well I finally got my pto situation worked out...at least partially.
I was able to get the PTO case fully closed with a BFH. Once I did that I was able to see the shaft yoke was NOT welded on, and just really really stuck. So I made a puller out of an old puller I had plus some old bolts (see pic below) and removed the yoke. It fought me the whole way....
After that I was able to focus on getting the case fully opened and the two sides separated. Well long story short I was forced to cut the chain due to it binding in the case. Once I did that I was able to separate the case without any issues.
Now I need to clean it up (clear out all the grease and re-drill out the JB welded lubrication holes), replace the chain, and reassemble. Then it's on to disassembling and inspecting the winch itself.

Image

Image

Image
Chris

1997 4x4 Ford Expedition

2003 KLR650 Motorbike

1967 6x6 Kaiser Jeep M35A2 w/winch

1954 M38A1

M998 HMMWV (work toy)

Joe Gopan
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Re: My new 1954 M38A1

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:43 pm

Did your PTO match the teeth on back of the Transfer?
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

Maverick1701
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Re: My new 1954 M38A1

Post by Maverick1701 » Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:08 am

I assumed it would. Every koenig PTO I have ever used and seen (model 40, 41, 50, 51, and 58....and even the old model 10s) all have 15 teeth so it should match-up to any dana 18 without any issues.
Did koenig make a CJ based dana 18 PTO with another tooth-count ring? (I'm not counting the FJ model PTOs)
Chris

1997 4x4 Ford Expedition

2003 KLR650 Motorbike

1967 6x6 Kaiser Jeep M35A2 w/winch

1954 M38A1

M998 HMMWV (work toy)

Joe Gopan
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Re: My new 1954 M38A1

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:45 am

If the PTO was made for the CJ-3B or CJ-5, it used the 809297 Main Shaft (29 Teeth), if it was made for CJ-2A, CJ-3A the Mainshaft Gear would have 26 Teeth. M-38/M-38A1 used the 26 Teeth Gear. If the drive on your KOENIG PTO is made for 26 Teeth, you are good to go.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

IvorGPW
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Re: My new 1954 M38A1

Post by IvorGPW » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:49 am

I think Joel is referring to overdrives which replace the main shaft gear and not ptos which are powered by the teeth that every main shaft gear has no matter what number of teeth the outside edge is.
Tate Christensen
1944 Ford GPW #234613 USMC Radio jeep
1943 Willys MB #263100
1945 Willys CJ2A #10226
1941 Ford GP #9687

Maverick1701
G-First Sergeant
G-First Sergeant
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:35 pm
Location: Memphis, Texas

Re: My new 1954 M38A1

Post by Maverick1701 » Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:01 pm

IvorGPW wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:49 am
I think Joel is referring to overdrives which replace the main shaft gear and not ptos which are powered by the teeth that every main shaft gear has no matter what number of teeth the outside edge is.
ok yea, that makes sense. I wasn't sure what he was referring to. I appreciate the clarification.
The output shaft gear has the 28 or 26 teeth. The inner shaft which is what the PTO engages is always 15:
photo of the gears in question:
http://hermtheoverdriveguy.com//wp-cont ... tall-2.jpg

Article outlining what we just said by Herm the OD guy:
http://hermtheoverdriveguy.com/applicat ... nt%20teeth.

Also from herm site:
Description Vehicle Models

26 Tooth-6 Spline M38, M38-A1, CJ-2A, CJ-3A, some CJ-3B, 4X4, 4-73 4X4 (Utility) 4-63

26 Tooth-6 Spline Tera-Low equipped D-18 transfer cases

27 Tooth-6 Spline MB, GPW, WWll Jeep and Hotchkiss M201

29 Tooth-6 Spline CJ-5, CJ-5A, CJ-6, CJ-6A, (Utility) 4-74 4X4, 3B, (Utility) 6-266, 6-230, some CJ- Brazilian Jeeps with 3 speed transmission

29 tooth-10 Spline CJ-5, CJ-5A, CJ-6, CJ-6A T-14 Transmission

29 Tooth-Metric 10 Spline Mitsubishi Jeeps until 1974

29 Tooth-Metric 15 Spline Mahindra Jeep Vehicles
Chris

1997 4x4 Ford Expedition

2003 KLR650 Motorbike

1967 6x6 Kaiser Jeep M35A2 w/winch

1954 M38A1

M998 HMMWV (work toy)

Joe Gopan
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Posts: 49296
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: My new 1954 M38A1

Post by Joe Gopan » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:47 pm

These teeth do differ, the change began when the larger Intermediate Shaft with 48 uncaged rollers was introduced. The late PTO will not engage the teeth on back of the earlier main shaft gears.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

Maverick1701
G-First Sergeant
G-First Sergeant
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:35 pm
Location: Memphis, Texas

Re: My new 1954 M38A1

Post by Maverick1701 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:54 am

Joe Gopan wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:47 pm
These teeth do differ, the change began when the larger Intermediate Shaft with 48 uncaged rollers was introduced. The late PTO will not engage the teeth on back of the earlier main shaft gears.
good to know, thanks.
My D18 works great with the PTOs I have used (40, 41, and now my 51). So I guess I got lucky with the right model.
Chris

1997 4x4 Ford Expedition

2003 KLR650 Motorbike

1967 6x6 Kaiser Jeep M35A2 w/winch

1954 M38A1

M998 HMMWV (work toy)


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