Hummer titling

Discussion of Local, State, and Federal issues regarding MV Legislation, MV use restrictions, MV registration refusals, etc. As these issues may ultimately affect other jurisdictions, information and education of all MV owners is crucial for the future ownership and use of our MVs.
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John Neuenburg
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Re: Hummer titling

Post by John Neuenburg » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:58 pm

John Neuenburg wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:45 pm
Updating equipment? That won't work for the older vehicles!

Probably our power comes from military history and honoring veterans. Much of the population gets warm and fuzzy over that, including many bureaucrats, and politicians know that. Parades, airshow displays, VFW, DAV, Wounded Warriors events? Sounds like it's a public relations exercise.
Like Dan said and I said earlier (see one post above), patriotism, veterans, and military history all have to be connected to the HMMWV and all other former MVs. This will attract the attention of some people who otherwise couldn't give a rip about ex-MVs. Politicians like "feel good" causes. The Historic Vehicle Association and Hagerty Insurance might be important allies. They and the MVPA should be sending press releases and letters pushing these buttons to all DMV management people and whoever else has a role in this. That can include every legislator in every state plus D.C. Email is cheap. This will create a foundation of knowledge prior to specific legislators being asked to be our champions.
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undysworld
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Re: Hummer titling

Post by undysworld » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:36 am

John and Dan,

I don't know what your background/s are, but I have been working since Sept. 26, 2007 on registration issues for odd vehicles here in Wisconsin, and I've had contact with literally hundreds of people nationwide on this subject. I'm not saying that I can't be mistaken, but I've been through a lot of this. From my experience, here's some observations:

State legislative representatives are only receptive to input from their constituents. Their interest lies in re-election. Period. Comments from non-constituents are RARELY of interest to them. "Feel good" is nice, but it doesn't get them re-elected usually.

Email is cheap, but it's also so omnipresent that legislative offices basically ignore it. They get hundreds of emails every day. They simply can't keep up with the load. If you really want to make an impact in a legislative office, a personal visit is the gold-standard. Second-best is a phone call. Last place falls to snail-mail. But unless they are expecting your email and watching for it, emails are pretty useless.

HVA (which is Hagerty Insurance) is national, so it's not a local voice. From my experience, they were not especially helpful in either notifying owners nor in their legislative review. But that's not to say that it's not worth contacting them.

SEMA is also national, but from my perspective, they are a better resource. Their SEMASAN site has lots of helpful info for people interested in legislative change. Their list of "car-friendly" legislators gives you a starting point for finding a sympathetic legislator in your state. Too bad Steve McDonald passed away, because he was awesome to work with, but there are other good people there too. SEMA is good at sending out notices to owners, but they can't (and won't) do the legislative work themselves.

The national HMVA really doesn't take the lead in a particular state either. They view the fight as a state fight, and they are right. As I mentioned above, legislators are not interested in out-of-state input - they just don't give a Sink The Bismarck unless you're their constituent. Get in touch with your in-state group/s.

We did have good luck with an in-state Wounded Warrior testifying for us. (Thanks Sgt. Mark.) He got legislator's attention. On my first visit to Sen. Erpenbach's office, I was accompanied by my friend and neighbor who was a retired Brigadier General in the Air Force (R.I.P., DC), and he had 'em on the edge of their seat. But these guys are only props to get legislator's attention. You still have to present your side of the argument.

That all said, what's necessary and effective in a given state probably varies to some extent. These are just my opinions, and they're worth what you're paying for 'em. Good luck.
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Info on Legislation at: http://www.alfaheaven.com/MilitarySecti ... Legis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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John Neuenburg
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Re: Hummer titling

Post by John Neuenburg » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:15 pm

undysworld wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:36 am
John and Dan,

I don't know what your background/s are, but I have been working since Sept. 26, 2007 on registration issues for odd vehicles here in Wisconsin, and I've had contact with literally hundreds of people nationwide on this subject. I'm not saying that I can't be mistaken, but I've been through a lot of this. From my experience, here's some observations:

State legislative representatives are only receptive to input from their constituents. Their interest lies in re-election. Period. Comments from non-constituents are RARELY of interest to them. "Feel good" is nice, but it doesn't get them re-elected usually.

Email is cheap, but it's also so omnipresent that legislative offices basically ignore it.
My background is outsides industrial, auto parts and auto service marketing sales, and event marketing/sponsorship sales. And in the MV hobby since 1985.

Please don't focus on the out-of-state part of it, or using email. We are talking about the concept of connecting HMVs to war-fighters, veterans, and military history, and communicating that to government servants AND their constituents. The organizations and companies mentioned, plus other HMV-related vendors, have access to people in all states who are readers of their newsletters, magazines, and web sites. They have the ability to alert clients, members, and customers about situations and ask them to take action. For example, the MVPA has affiliated clubs all over the U.S., each with officers required to be MVPA members, thus they get Supply Line and the messages within. When a parade participant takes photos of veterans riding in HMVs in a Veteran's Day or Independence Day parade, he could go to the next step of sending an article to his local newspaper. A HMV event promoter can invite the local TV station and set up interviews with vehicle owners. Let's say the promoter or PR guy has been a WWII buff and is clueless about modern equipment. Now he knows there is a problem with registering the newer MVs, he can include the newer ones in his public relations plan. Take a photo of kids sitting in a HMMWV and make sure the caption says, "privately owned vehicle." Publicize the vet who owns it.

If the congress critter sees this in the media, he knows his constituents are seeing it. Hell, he probably rode in the parade in an old car! How about a HMV owner offering a ride to him/her? Or the mayor. He may run for broader office someday. So the politician is now more informed and may respond well to a proposal to put something into a bill that benefits us.

Image

In the sales process, decisions are made in the emotional state, not the analytical. Arguing about equipment and existing law or policies is analytical. The objective is to create pain in the mind of the adversary - in this case the pain of not jumping on the "feel good" bandwagon of veterans, their families, and the part of the population that really wants to see these HMVs doing their thing. He can eliminate that pain. Just show him how.

Image
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undysworld
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Re: Hummer titling

Post by undysworld » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:49 pm

I got nothin'.

Go get 'em John. I'm relieved to see someone stepping up to take this on. If your plans work, I'll be thrilled. Glad you can do it from where you are.
1966 AM-General M35A-2
1973 DeTomaso Pantera
1976 Steyr-Puch Pinzgauer 712M
M-416 Trailer (behind Pinzgauer)
1980 AMC Jeep CJ-5

Info on Legislation at: http://www.alfaheaven.com/MilitarySecti ... Legis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Hummer titling

Post by DaninNM » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:59 pm

undysworld - please send me the contact Info you have for the organizations you mentioned in your post - I will see that the affiliated clubs get those along with any "general" material we are able to develop. SEMA items, info on the Association of registrars, etc. I will take it upon myself with others in the MVPA to generate a white papers within the MVPA to give people in other states at least an outline of how to approach their own states' MV registration folks....
while the point is well taken that this is a LOCAL - read STATE - issue, there is commonality to the approaches that will work. A team of MV owners glad-handing at the association meeting might well assist with veterans pressing the flesh, maybe some dignitaries, some MOH winners, a general or two that own MVs....

Just saying
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undysworld
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Re: Hummer titling

Post by undysworld » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:11 am

Dan,
pm sent
P
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1973 DeTomaso Pantera
1976 Steyr-Puch Pinzgauer 712M
M-416 Trailer (behind Pinzgauer)
1980 AMC Jeep CJ-5

Info on Legislation at: http://www.alfaheaven.com/MilitarySecti ... Legis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thomas Romine
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Re: Hummer titling

Post by Thomas Romine » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:39 pm

Ok gents I need to know which states are issuing title for these vehicles. If you live in a state the does please post what state and link to any law that supports the info if you can.

I only want facts. I you don't know for then please let someone post that does.

I need simply complied a list at this point.

Thanks Tom

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undysworld
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Re: Hummer titling

Post by undysworld » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:54 pm

Thomas Romine wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:39 pm
Ok gents I need to know which states are issuing title for these vehicles. If you live in a state the does please post what state and link to any law that supports the info if you can.

I only want facts. I you don't know for then please let someone post that does.

I need simply complied a list at this point.

Thanks Tom

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Tom,
This might be done best by pm. ?? Your call. Pm sent.
1966 AM-General M35A-2
1973 DeTomaso Pantera
1976 Steyr-Puch Pinzgauer 712M
M-416 Trailer (behind Pinzgauer)
1980 AMC Jeep CJ-5

Info on Legislation at: http://www.alfaheaven.com/MilitarySecti ... Legis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thomas Romine
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Re: Hummer titling

Post by Thomas Romine » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:12 pm

Yes please send info via pm.

Thank you for your help.

Tom

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Re: Hummer titling

Post by Gummy1950 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:00 pm

All,

State Senator Hopgood is spearheading a bill in Lansing that would create a new class of "historic military vehicles" whose titling would parallel our "authenticated" antique vehicles and plates issued by the Secretary of State. Special class, special plate, $35.00 lifetime fee, no updates required for emissions, passive restraints, etc. The vehicle would use a collectors plate (we have a design already done and it is cool as hell) and not to be used for everyday use, but to be used for exhibitions, parades, car/military club activities, swap meets, maintenance and testing, tours and similar activities. It would require insurance at all times. It would cover both foreign built and domestic for the Kubel gang, Pinzgauers, British wheeled armor, etc.

I have been made aware of some of the BS reasons given by some SOS reps and they don't wash: emissions, "not designed for use on highways" and other nonsense. When asked what difference there is between a HUMVEE and an MB, they have no response, because they have no legal or practical grounds by which to deny the titles. And I guess they never saw the Michigan National Guard driving these things in convoys on I-75 to Camp Grayling EVERY YEAR for 30+ years for their maneuvers. This, I think, is the work of a few rogue bureaucrats in the SOS that think they can make up law on their own.

If you live in Michigan please call the senator's office at (517) 373-7800 and politely inform his office staff that you support the bill (no number yet) and wish it become law in Michigan. He may ask for your address so they have an understanding of where the support is coming from and work with the respective legislators in those parts of the state. Even better, call or visit the office of your state representative and state senator, too, and tell him/her directly you support the bill. The more we speak up the sooner we get this thing resolved in our favor.

Bill Thatcher, Trustee
Military Vehicle Collectors Club of Michigan
MVPA #25014
1950 M38
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Re: Hummer titling

Post by Lazboytt » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:55 pm

Hello

I just wanted to add that do not be afraid to call the office or be intimidated They are very nice and easy to work with people and will speak in layman’s terms. Just tell them that you are in support of the proposed legislation

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Re: Hummer titling

Post by Retired War Horses » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:37 am

Mean while...down here in California, we too have been shuttered as of 1 October 2017.
At the moment I am getting everything lined up to present to the Senator working with me on getting similar legislation passed.
Ours too will be Historical/Antique plates with the same restrictions....pretty much what we already have on the books for Historical plated vehicles anyway, just need to get the HMMWV and other FMV’s added that are at least 25yrs or older.

Suffice to say....I’ve had absolutely NO help from MVCC or MVPA on this, and before anyone even starts going off on me, yes...I’ve had Conversations with members at the highest levels of each organization, it’s the normal “it don’t affect me syndrome”. I’m fine with it, I’m going to do what I need to do, but it’s really too bad, as this doesn’t affect just hmmwv’s, it’s ALL former military vehicles, so effectively if this is left to stand, the hobby is dead to any growth and the future of the hobby in California.
I have my Senator, Jim Frazier that will be leading the effort, he is on the transportation committee for this county and sits on the Veterans board for the state of California. Wish me luck.....I’ve alrady been told it’s a 2yr legislative process.
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Hummer titling

Post by Lazboytt » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:16 am

Retired War Horses wrote:Mean while...down here in California, we too have been shuttered as of 1 October 2017.
At the moment I am getting everything lined up to present to the Senator working with me on getting similar legislation passed.
Ours too will be Historical/Antique plates with the same restrictions....pretty much what we already have on the books for Historical plated vehicles anyway, just need to get the HMMWV and other FMV’s added that are at least 25yrs or older.

Suffice to say....I’ve had absolutely NO help from MVCC or MVPA on this, and before anyone even starts going off on me, yes...I’ve had Conversations with members at the highest levels of each organization, it’s the normal “it don’t affect me syndrome”. I’m fine with it, I’m going to do what I need to do, but it’s really too bad, as this doesn’t affect just hmmwv’s, it’s ALL former military vehicles, so effectively if this is left to stand, the hobby is dead to any growth and the future of the hobby in California.
I have my Senator, Jim Frazier that will be leading the effort, he is on the transportation committee for this county and sits on the Veterans board for the state of California. Wish me luck.....I’ve alrady been told it’s a 2yr legislative process.

I’m sorry you are facing the same issues with titling your vehicle . I’m new to both clubs and started the communication with the senators office to get the ball rolling. I’ve been blessed with having some members of the club here in Michigan willing to help. The more states that get onboard the easier it will be for others to follow.


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Re: Hummer titling

Post by Kevin Lockwood » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:25 pm

Speaking for MVPA HQ we will be very glad to assist any affiliate or member in navigating obstacles such as those occurring in California. We are currently assisting members in Idaho, Michigan, etc. We are trying to assess issues that have arisen in Louisiana, Maryland, and Virginia. We have successfully put in place legislation allowing for the title and registration of HMMVVs in Kentucky. We have rolled back attempts by DMVs in Kansas and Wisconsin.
As in any organization communication is key. I spoke personally to several California members and as I recall all agreed that we should differ to California affiliates and other MV owners in California to spearhead the process. While we have had a constant flow of info from Idaho and Michigan; I am fairly sure that no requests for assets or even a update of the situation has been pushed up the chain from California.
This issue first popped on the MVCC forum and it can be seen there in a post where the local feel was for the MVCC to take the point on this issue.
I would be glad to work with any member or affiliate to produce positive results relating to the continued operation of these great vehicles REGARDLESS OF THE ERA IN WHICH THEY WERE MANUFACTURED.
Please check MVPA.ORG for a legislative link to several helpful documents.
Please watch for the next issue of Supply Line / Army Motors as there will be a great article updating the progress being made in Idaho.
Please reach out to others in the MV community and encourage them to JOIN THE MVPA. We need the additional members to create an effective voice.
Please reach out to each other and realize that we must all pull together on these issues. Discriminating by vehicle era or type is foolish.
Nuff Said
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Re: Hummer titling

Post by ccandgc » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:17 pm

Yes, this. This is the same mentality that pervades most of the country with regards to CA. Same with firearm issues. Funny thing is, it's only a matter of tie before the rest of the country follows suit.
With regards to the HMMWV, these issues have kept me from purchasing one from one of the auction houses, there have been several, but what's the point? Too bad.....
Retired War Horses wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:37 am
Mean while...down here in California, we too have been shuttered as of 1 October 2017.
At the moment I am getting everything lined up to present to the Senator working with me on getting similar legislation passed.
Ours too will be Historical/Antique plates with the same restrictions....pretty much what we already have on the books for Historical plated vehicles anyway, just need to get the HMMWV and other FMV’s added that are at least 25yrs or older.

Suffice to say....I’ve had absolutely NO help from MVCC or MVPA on this, and before anyone even starts going off on me, yes...I’ve had Conversations with members at the highest levels of each organization, it’s the normal “it don’t affect me syndrome”. I’m fine with it, I’m going to do what I need to do, but it’s really too bad, as this doesn’t affect just hmmwv’s, it’s ALL former military vehicles, so effectively if this is left to stand, the hobby is dead to any growth and the future of the hobby in California.
I have my Senator, Jim Frazier that will be leading the effort, he is on the transportation committee for this county and sits on the Veterans board for the state of California. Wish me luck.....I’ve alrady been told it’s a 2yr legislative process.
-Chad

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