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EPA Rules Banning Federal Sale of Surplus Vehicles?

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:55 am
by wreckless
This sure came out of nowhere...

Ban on Defense Department vehicle sales to affect Oklahoma's rural fire departments

Through the Rural Fire Defense Program, forestry services have acquired federal surplus vehicles for pennies on the dollar. A new federal agreement will stop the sale of defense vehicles that don’t meet emission standards.

By Kyle Schwab, Staff Writer • Published: July 2, 2014

A decades-old program allowing fire departments to purchase surplus military vehicles appears to be no more.

An agreement between the Department of Defense and the Environmental Protection Agency, aimed at reducing emissions, will stop the sale of defense vehicles that don’t meet the EPA’s emission standards, the state forestry service reports.

http://newsok.com/ban-on-defense-depart ... le/4984973

Re: EPA Rules Banning Federal Sale of Surplus Vehicles?

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:05 am
by Joe Gopan
Emissions from forest fires are no problem, right? The firefighters can just stay home out of danger. What's next? The Indian Pump ???????

Re: EPA Rules Banning Federal Sale of Surplus Vehicles?

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:31 pm
by a61ford
All M series vehicles have been yanked from Gov Liquidation as well.

Re: EPA Rules Banning Federal Sale of Surplus Vehicles?

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:02 pm
by Joe Gopan
Not surprised at all, not one bit. Kind of sad. Surplus MV's are just as useless to the Gov't as the brave Veterans who drove them.

Re: EPA Rules Banning Federal Sale of Surplus Vehicles?

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:16 am
by a61ford
Here is a good thread on Steel Soldiers on the issue. We need to make noise, and now. The silence from the MVPA is deafening.

Re: EPA Rules Banning Federal Sale of Surplus Vehicles?

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:08 pm
by clinto
a61ford wrote:Here is a good thread on Steel Soldiers on the issue. We need to make noise, and now.
The thread referenced can be seen here: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread ... k-Auctions

The basic gist of the story is that there is supposedly a decades old agreement between EPA & TACOM regarding the surplus of vehicles and engine powered accessories (pumps, generators, etc.). This agreement theoretically restricts the sale of such items because they aren't emissions compliant. The initial blockage restricted all item sales and after pushback from rural fire departments, a modified version of the program will be allowed to move forward, but not in a way that they're happy with. There is still no movement on sales to the public.

That's the "official" line, there are some other unsubstantiated theories that I won't bother repeating until somebody produces some official emails, memos, etc.
a61ford wrote:The silence from the MVPA is deafening.
They know about this and are discussing it as we speak. They know that before any kind of campaign can begin, we have to do our research and find out exactly what we're up against. I anticipate hearing back from them next week.

Once we all know what the ground looks like that we're standing on, we can mount a campaign and begin talking to all of our various representatives.

Re: EPA Rules Banning Federal Sale of Surplus Vehicles?

Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:29 pm
by Kevin Lockwood
"The Military Vehicle Preservation Association (MVPA) is actively looking into the circumstances regarding the recent suspension of sales of surplus U.S. military vehicles. As facts and accurate information are fully known - rather than speculation - the MVPA will develop, communicate, and implement an appropriate response."
Thanks to all concerned.
If you are not an MVPA member join now.
Kevin Lockwood
MVPA member #15647

Re: EPA Rules Banning Federal Sale of Surplus Vehicles?

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:14 am
by undysworld
Thank you Kevin.
Paul

Re: EPA Rules Banning Federal Sale of Surplus Vehicles?

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:46 pm
by Old Dodge Guy
Anything new on the topic? I have not heard anything in the last week. Talked to the House Transportation Committee chairman and one of the committee subchairs last Saturday at a town hall, neither knew anything. Committee Chair had heard a rumor or two, but since this brou ha is in the Clean air or some such Committee, it is not covered by Transportation Committee. :o :shock: :twisted: He was going to look into it. Tentative plans to meet with the sub chair tomorrow at his place, but subject to him leaving to Washington early because of the world crisis es (what ever the multiple if crisis is.) So, is anything moving? ODG

Re: EPA Rules Banning Federal Sale of Surplus Vehicles?

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:06 am
by Joe Gopan
Be careful and do not rock the boat on emissions from Diesel type trucks, there is still a good supply of Surplus Trucks on the civilian market and no need to panic.

Re: EPA Rules Banning Federal Sale of Surplus Vehicles?

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:14 pm
by Old Dodge Guy
Sorry Ben,
Just trying to find out information and lightly rattle cages at this time.

I have had to deal with these treehugger types before, there is no "tread lightly" with them. They are right, you are wrong, and there is NO mediation. They are from the government and they will help you to death. Been there....done that. This is a type of matter you go in and go in full steam and hope you gather help as you go.......otherwise they will pick you to pieces.

As to
Ben Dover wrote:there is still a good supply of Surplus Trucks on the civilian market and no need to panic.
that is ONLY accurate at the moment. I am sure you have heard the tin foil hat talk "they think all the surplused vehicles always belong to the military and always will, and civilians never can own them and will be confiscated back to the government". Unfortunately, that talk has resurfaced. Besides, it is not all nut case hoopla, I got that exact speech from a GENERAL in charge of a section of TAACOM some years ago. If they can't sell them to you, then they might want to come back and get those that are out. So...we need to nip this NOW!!! before it escalates further.
Right now, House Transportation committee is out of the loop, SEMA has no information, no new information is coming out to my knowledge, MVPA and other organizations say to sit tight, and I am trying to find out new info from impeachable sources, instead of hearsay.
I am sorry, been down that road before..........not gonna get betrayed again. I am going to find out my OWN information.

Re: EPA Rules Banning Federal Sale of Surplus Vehicles?

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:19 am
by Thundercat97

Re: EPA Rules Banning Federal Sale of Surplus Vehicles?

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:57 am
by undysworld
Here's the link to the full article: http://www.mvpa.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... _email.pdf

No final decision reached yet.

Re: EPA Rules Banning Federal Sale of Surplus Vehicles?

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:32 pm
by podski
Ben Dover wrote:Be careful and do not rock the boat on emissions from Diesel type trucks, there is still a good supply of Surplus Trucks on the civilian market and no need to panic.
I wish I could see it that way too. As I understand that article sent by the MVPA, the supply HAS dried up. As of right now, no more suplus sales of most diesel vehicles and engines. The only "supply" out there now is what is "on the dealers' lots". And what do you think that's gonna do to the prices! And if I had one of the vehicles on the "banned from sale" list, I would be worried that the DoD and/or EPA may decide that past sales of any of those vehicles violated the Clean Air Act. Wonder what happens if it is determined that the suplus MV vehicle you own and have title to was illegally sold?

I have seen some very reasonably priced M35 types for sale that made me think just a little bit how cool it would be to have something a "little" bigger than my GPW and from a more recent era. With this blowing in the wind, I don't think I would even consider it now.

Re: EPA Rules Banning Federal Sale of Surplus Vehicles?

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:20 am
by Retired War Horses
If you do more research, you would know that this was not EPA driven, but in fact DOD driven to come into compliance by an Air Force administrator. This led to the the stop sale until it is determined what vehicles can or would be able to be transferred as to be in compliance with the federal exemption. As stated in the he MVPA letter, it's not black and white, the cummins motor in M939A2 motors ARE compliant! Not just as labeled, but as tested, so IMHO, I really do see these trucks coming back...


Email provided from Seafire:


Federal Surplus Program participants,

I wanted to give you an update on what we know so far regarding the availability of diesel powered vehicles and equipment through the Federal Surplus Program.

We had a conference call last week with the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) and General Services Administration (GSA). The Director (Colonel) of the DLA Disposition Service was on the call. The Director said that EPA has agreed to the release of vehicles for the LESO, FEPP and FFP programs. However, he stated, title for those programs will be retained by the Federal Government and all those vehicles will be tracked. The vehicles and equipment you all acquire from the Federal Surplus Program are still not being released by DLA.

The Director also said that they are working with the EPA and discussing some potential courses of action. These range from the current no donation policy to several other options. He mentioned options such as making the National Security exemption valid for the life of the vehicle regardless of owner, and also using a regulatory useful life (treat them like classic cars are treated for emissions). He did not discuss all the options that are being considered; he just gave us some examples. The Director agrees with us that it does not make sense to destroy these vehicles, especially ones that we know will meet EPA standards. He said that he took seven surplus vehicles and had them tested, and all passed EPA emission tests as long as they run on diesel and not JP8 fuel. He promised that he will continue to work on this issue and meet with EPA on an ongoing basis until they resolve this issue. EPA staff have not presented anything to their upper management (Assistant Administrator/Administrator level) yet for a decision.

The Director did address a couple of issues that have been in people’s mind for a while. He categorically said DLA and EPA have no interest in the vehicles that have been donated over the years, including the vehicles and engines we currently have in our warehouses in San Antonio and Ft. Worth. They do not want any of them back. Texas is one of the few States that still maintain warehouses. Other States have gone strictly to direct pickups and have nothing to donate. Fortunately, we still have a large inventory of trucks and other diesel powered equipment. The Director also said that they are keeping everything in place right now and they will not destroy anything until this issue is resolved. DLA has set up holding yards for future use in case the current locations get filled up.

We will continue to reach out to members of Congress asking them to encourage the EPA to do the right thing for the States.

Regards,

Director
Federal and State Surplus Property
Texas Facilities Commission