Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Discussion of Local, State, and Federal issues regarding MV Legislation, MV use restrictions, MV registration refusals, etc. As these issues may ultimately affect other jurisdictions, information and education of all MV owners is crucial for the future ownership and use of our MVs.
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Ernie Baals
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ernie Baals » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:57 pm

Hi
Paul
thanks again for your tireless ans unselfish work.
Ernie
Rip Dad 1/22/24 to 12/21/11
I will always love and miss you.
Ernie Baals MVPA 104C and 3104, AACA, SJC MVPA

Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government
that requires every citizen to prove
they are insured……but not everyone
must prove they are a citizen”

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by StudebakerM275 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:55 am

1. Yes thanks very much for your part in fighting the good fight :mrgreen: Well i guess my truck is as rightless as it was until added to this "LIST" :roll:

2. No i wasn't smearing the DUK tour's i wanted to know how they ducked :lol: or rather dodged this bullet was all . . . they are simply operating under a different system then our HMV's :shock: lucky them :evil: . . .

Mike
1953 Studebaker M275.
1962 GMC K4500.
1969 AMC-AMX.
1976 Arctic Cat Jag.
1977 Ford F350.
1982 AMC-Jeep J/20 Honcho.
1988 AMC-Jeep V8 Comanche .
1992 Trans Am GTA.
2007 Honda Rubicon.

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ben Dover » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:33 am

The latest "Supply Line" has an excellent article on the MVPA support on this issue. Jeff Rowsam and a few other promInent MV collectors played a major role in the success of this measure.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ernie Baals » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:52 am

Hi Ben
With all due respect,
I would not call what Jeff accomplished a success, but a sell out to the Wsc DMV, The DMV got exactly what they wanted Complete control over vehicles that upto that point had been legal to register in any many the owner pleased.
Pauls\'s bill ont he othere hand, Was a complete success, the Wisc DMV was forces to allow him to continue registering his truck as Paul saw fit.
Ernie
Rip Dad 1/22/24 to 12/21/11
I will always love and miss you.
Ernie Baals MVPA 104C and 3104, AACA, SJC MVPA

Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government
that requires every citizen to prove
they are insured……but not everyone
must prove they are a citizen”

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by gerrykan » Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:30 pm

Ben Dover wrote:The latest "Supply Line" has an excellent article on the MVPA support on this issue. Jeff Rowsam and a few other promInent MV collectors played a major role in the success of this measure.
Ha Ha Ha!

That's funny!

You should go on the road as a comedy act!
Roy


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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by StudebakerM275 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:37 pm

This has become a he said she said blame game, truth is these vehicles are most likely less safe then most.

Mike
1953 Studebaker M275.
1962 GMC K4500.
1969 AMC-AMX.
1976 Arctic Cat Jag.
1977 Ford F350.
1982 AMC-Jeep J/20 Honcho.
1988 AMC-Jeep V8 Comanche .
1992 Trans Am GTA.
2007 Honda Rubicon.

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ben Dover » Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:52 pm

Jeff Rowsam touched on that topic in the Supply Line article. It is true in some respects.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by StudebakerM275 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:43 pm

Well they don't have disc brakes they don't have solid rim tube less radial tires they don't have ABS they don't have shoulder belts or air bag's :lol:
So is a 1950 6x6 less safe then a 2010 C7500 ? sure . . . but the 1950 6x6 isn't any less safe then a 1965 C7500 that is allowed to freely do as it wishes :wink:


Mike
1953 Studebaker M275.
1962 GMC K4500.
1969 AMC-AMX.
1976 Arctic Cat Jag.
1977 Ford F350.
1982 AMC-Jeep J/20 Honcho.
1988 AMC-Jeep V8 Comanche .
1992 Trans Am GTA.
2007 Honda Rubicon.

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by n9udl » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:06 pm

StudebakerM275 wrote:Well they don't have disc brakes they don't have solid rim tube less radial tires they don't have ABS they don't have shoulder belts or air bag's :lol:
So is a 1950 6x6 less safe then a 2010 C7500 ? sure . . . but the 1950 6x6 isn't any less safe then a 1965 C7500 that is allowed to freely do as it wishes :wink:
Mike
And that is my contention, in a nutshell.

It is ridiculous to treat ex-military vehicles differently than similarly-equipped civilian vehicles of the same vintage. My Pinzgauer compares very favorably (safety-wise) to a comparable full-size Blazer or Bronco from the same year. A simple safety-equipment inspection could have established quickly if it was lacking any essential safety equipment, and if a defect was found, a subsequent inspection could have established that it had been resolved.

However, what WisDOT repeated stated during Paul's hearing was that it was impossible for them to determine whether vehicles with non-conforming VINs were safe. So, if they punch in your VIN during registration and it is not recognized by their system as "conforming", they want to assume that you are "unsafe". I don't object to that assumption, as long as a vehicle equipment inspection is offered to establish that my vehicle meets safety-equipment standards for it's year of manufacture.

Obviously, my position works best for "vintage" (20+ years old) since standards are different in 2010 than they were in 1974. It isn't hard to argue that my Pinz compares favorably to a Bronco, but it may be harder to argue that a 2010 Humvee compares favorably to a 2010 passenger vehicle with side-curtain airbages, crumple-zone, etc.

Tom

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ben Dover » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:14 pm

As long as the MV's are driven by the strict rules set by the Military and maintained to the strict standards the Military goes by there would be a minimum of safety concern. These vehicles do get old and parts get expensive and scarce which can contribute to safe operation.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
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COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by gerrykan » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:23 pm

Ben Dover wrote:As long as the MV's are driven by the strict rules set by the Military
So, I have to 'sign out' to the Army Motorpool every time I want to drive one of my trucks? :roll:
Roy

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by n9udl » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:30 pm

Ben Dover wrote:As long as the MV's are driven by the strict rules set by the Military and maintained to the strict standards the Military goes by there would be a minimum of safety concern. These vehicles do get old and parts get expensive and scarce which can contribute to safe operation.
We can probably agree that all vehicles have the potential to become unsafe when they are not maintained and operated according to the manufacturer's specifications.

There are plenty of poorly maintained, idiot-driven civilian vehicles on Wisconsin roads. Cars dragging exhaust, worn-out brakes, burned-out signal bulbs.

We are not a special case.

Tom

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Old Dodge Guy » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:34 pm

Ben Dover wrote:As long as the MV's are driven by the strict rules set by the Military and maintained to the strict standards the Military goes by there would be a minimum of safety concern. These vehicles do get old and parts get expensive and scarce which can contribute to safe operation.
Yes, this is true, complete agreement. So is ANY similar vintage vehicle. You just need a simple vehicle inspection program. FOR ALL VEHICLES! I can provide info on State of Missouri vehicle inspection program if you wish. You MUST pass the inspection every 2 years or no license, no matter what age of the vehicle.
********humor alert, the following is meant in a light hearted way. ****** Ben, are you casting doubt on the ability of MV people to maintain their vehicles in a safe manner? :lol:
Still crazy after all these years.
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by gerrykan » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:49 pm

Old Dodge Guy wrote: Ben, are you casting doubt on the ability of MV people to maintain their vehicles in a safe manner? :lol:
Of course he is. To hear him tell it(as he often does), anyone that is not US Army trained has no business owning a former US military vehicle.
Roy

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ben Dover » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:22 pm

Old Dodge Guy wrote:
Ben Dover wrote:As long as the MV's are driven by the strict rules set by the Military and maintained to the strict standards the Military goes by there would be a minimum of safety concern. These vehicles do get old and parts get expensive and scarce which can contribute to safe operation.
Yes, this is true, complete agreement. So is ANY similar vintage vehicle. You just need a simple vehicle inspection program. FOR ALL VEHICLES! I can provide info on State of Missouri vehicle inspection program if you wish. You MUST pass the inspection every 2 years or no license, no matter what age of the vehicle.
********humor alert, the following is meant in a light hearted way. ****** Ben, are you casting doubt on the ability of MV people to maintain their vehicles in a safe manner? :lol:
One need not be Army Trained, but there are some not too good mixes of man and machine among the ranks of MV owners, some trucks have been out of the military for 50+ years with none of the regularly scheduled maintenance having been done. Just browse the various MV sites and follow the posts of those who are having problems maintaining their worn out vehicles. It is quite obvious there are some safety issues as some trucks are not do it yourself friendly.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

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