Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Discussion of Local, State, and Federal issues regarding MV Legislation, MV use restrictions, MV registration refusals, etc. As these issues may ultimately affect other jurisdictions, information and education of all MV owners is crucial for the future ownership and use of our MVs.
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raymond
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by raymond » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:50 am

Ernie Baals wrote: There is one state, i cannot remember which, it is either Mont, Idaho or one of the northwest states, that does not allow M151s on there roads at all. Due to the fed demill regs.

Ernie

While that may have been the case a couple decades ago, it no longer seems to be the rule now. I have been involved with M151s for 13 years and can say with authority that they are owned, licensed, and legally operated in all 50 states. There have been a couple of companies that assembled them from repop bodies and sold them in all states. Carolina Growler continues to do so. Some states will not let you title the vehicle as a "M151" as it is not in their computer list of options. In those cases you must title it as a "jeep", "1/4 ton truck", "utility truck", etc. It is not unlike some states that will not allow the use of "Dodge M37" on a title, but will insist on "Dodge 3/4 ton truck".

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ben Dover » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:54 am

Or those who registered their M-151 Jeeps as CJ-5 to avoid scrutiny.
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by undysworld » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:11 am

BendOver,

If you're insinuating that folks should "choose Jeff" over me. Whatever. I never asked to be made King of the Complainers. I don't fancy Jeff's job.

But somehow, somewhere, the "regular user" got left off of the bill which Jeff helped develop, push, and get passed. Early on, he assured me that he would look out for farm users, etc., but it didn't happen.

Many (including Jeff, I believe) claim that DOT and law enforcement will just wink and nod, and let them continue to haul a load and take recreational drives, etc., just like before. Maybe in some areas of the state, and for some guys, that will be true.

But it is also true that DOT has gone after some guys' trucks with a calous disregard for federal regulations, state statutes, and court orders. I'm one of those guys.

I'm all for Jeff representing milveh owners, but it has to include ALL milveh owners then. What happened to the rest of us?

At this point, considering that AB-592 got signed into law, the only way for Jeff and others to support the concerns of us "regular" users is for them all to support the passage of SB-392. And YES I realize it is imperfect and has disagreeable limitations. But it's a darn sight better than nothing for us.

What about you urging Jeff to represent us now too? If not, why won't you?

Paul Underwood
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M-416 Trailer (behind Pinzgauer)
1980 AMC Jeep CJ-5

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ernie Baals » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:19 am

Hi Raymond
Thanks for the info, it was a while ago, I was told that, By Sarafans truck driver, wno had his load isnpsected to make sure there were no M151s on his trailer.
NJ is one of the states that does not allow M151s to be registered. But 1/4 ton Ford ultiliy trucks of jeeps are fine :wink:

Hi Ben
Are you aware that under Wisc new laws you would not be allowed to drive any of your motor pool to breakfast anymore?

Ernie
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ben Dover » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:41 am

Ernie,
Wisconsin is an unfortunate situation, and if this State did try to limit registration of surplus MV's there will be no problem with gathering representation from experts with credible experience in the MV industry to provide support.

Ernie, you're just in time for a road test which goes right by Dunkin Donuts and ends at old Dow Field Hanger #1.
Road testing is a necessary part of PM to ensure safe MV operation and is part of the two way street entrusted to those who have registered their restored antique vehicles that they are restored to their original safe operating condition.
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Kevin Lockwood » Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:41 am

Ben,
You tell Ernie that
"Wisconsin is an unfortunate situation, and if this State did try to limit registration of surplus MV's there will be no problem with gathering representation from experts with credible experience in the MV industry to provide support."
I would contend that Wisconsin via 404 HAS limited registration of MVs already. Where were all the experts when we needed them? If you are wanting a parade only vehicle I suppose you're good. If, however you are hoping to own your first MV and needed a work truck not so good. Given the choice of a CCKW or KB series IHC you would have to go with the civilian model. One less MV owner and potential Preservationist.
I respect you're adherence to following PMs on road vehicles. You clearly doubt that all MV operators are as strict in their application of the PM to the letter as yourself. Point taken and heck I would bet you're mostly correct in that assumption. I am surprised to see how willing you are however to turn a blind eye to Wisconsin law by stopping by the donut shop when you should be closely monitoring you're vehicle during the important PM run. I am sure that law enforcement will mostly overlook these minor violations of the MV law. Sooner or later though someone will be circumventing the 404 law and while backing their MB out of the donut shop will be involved in a accident. Fatality?? Prior to 404 we as a MV community were simply another motor vehicle driven by a licensed operator involved in a accident. Now that we have culled ourselves from the masses and admitted in Wisconsin assembly that we are not roadworthy I can assure you there will be questions asked and we as a community will be held accountable for operating a restricted use vehicle in violation of the law.
Kevin Lockwood
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ben Dover » Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:50 pm

Surplus off road MV's have been on the highways since before and during WWII, the industry was the lifeblood of and serviced by large Surplus dealers, Downtown Truck, Memphis, Dixie, Highland, Houston Truck, Rex Tex, Willenskys, Winers, Sarafans, Kaufmans, Supreme, Firestome, for 40-50 years and hundreds of local dealers. There is a precident of these being used for work and pleasure. The later M-Series except for those on the demil list are actually safer and require less skill to drive than the WWII types.
The Local, State and Federal agencies have hundreds of these in every day emergency use by both skilled and unskilled drivers. It may have not gone well this first round, and should go smoother next time around. Allowing hype will do no good, but with calm leadership it just might. Bitching and blaming is not the way to go.
Last edited by Ben Dover on Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Cat Man » Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:50 pm

If you read the new Wisconsin Law you will see that we included a provision to allow municipal users to continue to purchase and utilize MV's including rural vol. fire fighting. The DMV did not oppose that item because the use is local and milage is limited, like the HMV law.

The provision insures a continued source of vehicles for collectors to purchase after the state, county or city are finished with them.

Cat Man

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by gerrykan » Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:32 pm

Cat Man wrote:If you read the new Wisconsin Law you will see that we included a provision to allow municipal users to continue to purchase and utilize MV's including rural vol. fire fighting. The DMV did not oppose that item because the use is local and milage is limited, like the HMV law.

The provision insures a continued source of vehicles for collectors to purchase after the state, county or city are finished with them.

Cat Man
A source to purchase vehicles....although you won't be able to use them for anything except parades. :? :roll:
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Kevin Lockwood » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:18 am

Early indications are that 392 ( the NON-restrictive ) MV bill PASSED!!! and is now on its way to the Governor's desk. Now this is GOOD NEWS!! Thanks to Paul Underwood and others who stood firm for MV use in Wisconsin!!!
Kevin
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ernie Baals » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:22 am

Hi All
We all owe a thanks to Paul for all the hard work he did. And for not bending over for the DMV and accepting what was being offered. Standng up for his ( and all other MV owners rights) and not worrying about pissing off those in charge.

3 Cheers for Paul :D :D :D

When I get the peasure of meeting you Paul, The drinks are on me!!!
Ernie
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by gerrykan » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:33 am

I can't add much over what Kevin and Ernie have said, I just hope the Governor signs it and Paul gets to relax after a long hard fight for what he believed in.
Roy

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ben Dover » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:38 am

And do not forget Jeff Rowsam, am sure he was a major and effective participant, with MVPA connection.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ernie Baals » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:35 am

Hi Ben
Unfortunatly, Jeff along with his legistlator, work against this bill and did not want it . :roll:
From what i understand the committee member who wrote Jeff's bill was the only one who voted against Paul's bill.

Once signed, this would be the bill that Jeff should have been trying to get, not just accept what Wisc DMV offered.
Ernie
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I will always love and miss you.
Ernie Baals MVPA 104C and 3104, AACA, SJC MVPA

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must prove they are a citizen”

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ben Dover » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:41 pm

Jeff did not spend his time in vain and worked in the best interest of all.
Hindsight is always 20-20.
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HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
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COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

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