Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Discussion of Local, State, and Federal issues regarding MV Legislation, MV use restrictions, MV registration refusals, etc. As these issues may ultimately affect other jurisdictions, information and education of all MV owners is crucial for the future ownership and use of our MVs.
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n9udl
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by n9udl » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:09 pm

StudebakerM275 wrote:You bought the truck they didn't not want to plate so i would have to say so, could have simply chosen another vehicle :wink: by why not take the rest of the MV's down with a cause YOU couldn't have your way ? :lol: ? At least this is how it seem's to me nothing against any body personally 8)
Yeah, I know I'm being baited- by a master. :wink:

It is worth noting that I bought my Pinzgauer in Oct of 2000. That is 7 years *before* WisDOT tried to take back my registration.

So, I might have avoided such an evil vehicle- If I had been PSYCHIC!

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by gerrykan » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:40 pm

StudebakerM275 wrote::shock: What unit started this, that Pinz thing ? i'll see to it i crush every one i get my hands on :twisted:

Mike
A World War II Willys jeep started this whole affair.
That's good news for you, there are a lot more jeeps to crush than Pinzgauers, so you stand to make a lot more money! :wink:
Roy

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by undysworld » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:41 pm

Wonderful i'm sure it it works for the guy's who put them back to how they where but for the guys that build them to be used get screwed i wonder how many MV's will get Recycled as a result of this ?

These truck's are all over farm's in WI preforming job making money and living a decent life

I but many of those may end up getting hacked up chopped up crated up and recycled

hope your happy the vehicle you fought to save you ended up killing off at a much faster rate enjoy

What unit started this that Pinz thing ? i'll see to it i crush every one i get my hands on

Mike

Hi Mike,

Paul Underwood here. Your last post is making me seriously consider asking our moderators to delete this entire thread. If it is a threat toward me or my truck, you have offended me.

I am someone who puts my trucks back together to use them. I own an U.S. Army AM General Deuce & 1/2, in addition to my Pinzgauer. I use them on my farm, many times per week. If any one person represents the Pinzgauer side of this affair, it is me. I'm the guy who took WisDOT to court, and won, over my Pinzgauer. I'm the guy who's trouble with WisDOT led Senator Erpenbach to author SB-392. I'm also the guy who's been fighting for YOUR rights since day-one.

If you are still unaware of the fact that this did not start with Pinzgauers, please let me know so I can forward documents which prove otherwise. Send me your email address.

Read SB-392, as it was originally introduced, and see that it used to cover your truck too. If you don't like the way it ended up, please re-read the previous posts regarding the meeting with Sen. Holperin, Jeff Rowsam, me, and others about how it got narrowed to only certain make/models. If, after reading that, you still don't understand things, let me know. I'll explain it to you again.

If you were supporting Jeff's efforts to get the "parade-law" passed, then you should be very pleased by everything that has happened. For collectors, I guess it's a good thing(?), maybe.

If you wanted more operating rights than that law gave, why weren't you helping me fight for it? I really don't remember you at the DOT public hearing over Trans123, the Assembly public hearing over AB-589 or AB-592, the Senate public hearing over SB-392 or SB-404, or requesting a copy of our petition to get some signatures. If you wanted more rights, were you there? If you were, then you saw me, because I attended them all, and then some.

I, Mr. Pinzgauer, have been SCREAMING for more operating rights for all milvehs, including yours, since Sept. of 2007. If you've got a beef with what I've done, then let me know directly. But any more comments like your last, and I will request this thread be deleted.

Paul Underwood
1966 AM-General M35A-2
1973 DeTomaso Pantera
1976 Steyr-Puch Pinzgauer 712M
M-416 Trailer (behind Pinzgauer)
1980 AMC Jeep CJ-5

Info on Legislation at: http://www.alfaheaven.com/MilitarySecti ... Legis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by StudebakerM275 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:51 pm

Na just venting that is all and Nothing more . . . If you notice the " ? " asking which Rig started this ? . . . your vehicle now has rights to the road Congrats :mrgreen:

The fate of my truck is Undecided . . . can a modified truck be HMV plated ?

My build plan:
M275 paint the body and rim's red the chassie and axle's painted black, then set it on top a set of ten 11.00R20 radial tires . . .Then put a sliding fifth wheel on it with a pop up goose neck ball, Then add a custom fabbed up Receiver hitch for use with ball hitches and pintle hook remove the factory pintle hook and install the rear plate in it former location.

Run a split in the trailer air brake system to have set of connections at the back of the cab as well as at the end of the frame, Then wire the truck up for electronic brakes, with few of the most common trailer plug in's mount on the tail board so no adapting would be needed simply hook up plug and go . . .

Now the point & plan for this truck is shot right out the window :shock: Sorry i'm not happy about it :evil: Now if i want to drive my truck i have to throw out my plan out ditch all the R &D invested and then replan and regear up for a factory restoration of the truck so now i can drive it but still can't use it . . .

Sorry i'm not happy about this but What good is a "TRUCK" i can't use ?

Mike
1953 Studebaker M275.
1962 GMC K4500.
1969 AMC-AMX.
1976 Arctic Cat Jag.
1977 Ford F350.
1982 AMC-Jeep J/20 Honcho.
1988 AMC-Jeep V8 Comanche .
1992 Trans Am GTA.
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Old Dodge Guy » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:24 pm

I would ask that this thread not be deleted, but everyone take a deep breath, and move forward. This serves a good purpose to keep everyone up to date, and informed. Yes, in Wisconsin, you got hosed, :evil: if you want to USE your vehicle. I am sorry for you. Next session, try to get 392 or similar bill passed, or 404 amended. BUT FOR THE REST OF US this serves as a fair warning!!!! Be proactive, watch what your legislators are up to, let MVPA know your thoughts on the matter. Don't let yourself be boxed in to a restricted use/second class status. If you disagree with the restricted use status, let someone know. BE POLITE, even if it hurts, but if no one knows your thoughts, someone ELSE is going to win. This summer, I will have been in the MVPA for 34 years, and they have had good times, and they have had bad times. This could be the making of another set of bad times, but only if you do not communicate with them. Let them know if you agree or disagree. Contact SEMA http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?I ... m/HomePage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to keep up with legislative updates. If you do not get involved, you will lose. Period!
Still crazy after all these years.
The OD bug bit me in 1970......and I have never been the same


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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by undysworld » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:01 am

Old Dodge Guy,

Thank you. Deleting this thread would be regretable.
Next session, try to get 392 or similar bill passed
Better yet. Help me NOW to get 392 passed, while we still can. This bill is not dead, and it is our best opportunity to set the precedent of allowing at least some milvehs to be used beyond parade uses.

392 has already passed a general Senate vote. It is awaiting final passage in the general Assembly. It then will need to be signed by Gov. Doyle. That makes it a law.

Is it perfect? Heck NO! Will it set a precedent, by ordering DOT to register milvehs for use beyond parades? YES IT WILL. Can we add extra make/models to the accepted list? Well, probably at least as easily as adding extra operating privileges on to the other bill.

Let's put it this way: If you are satisfied with AB-592 (which allows parade-only uses), great. But if you want some provision for semi-normal operation (carrying loads), the current best option is SB-392 (Erpenbach's bill). IF you want SB-392 to pass, write to our Governor and tell him so. Otherwise we start again, next legislative session...

Never give up.

Paul U
1966 AM-General M35A-2
1973 DeTomaso Pantera
1976 Steyr-Puch Pinzgauer 712M
M-416 Trailer (behind Pinzgauer)
1980 AMC Jeep CJ-5

Info on Legislation at: http://www.alfaheaven.com/MilitarySecti ... Legis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ernie Baals » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:52 am

Hi Paul
Please do not be offended by those who do not know long and hard you have been fighting.
You are the only one, it seems, that was truely trying to do the correct thing,
I have no idea why Jeff, the MVPA or Mil Veh mag would support such a restrctive bill. It makes no sense.
Do you know how the new law would apply to non Wisc residents who try to drive their MV into Wisc for a show?
Keep up the good fight
Ernie
Last edited by Ernie Baals on Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Kevin Lockwood » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:48 am

Ernie,
It is great to see you post on this.
The WisDOT law has no authority over non-Wisconsin plated vehicles. This alone should have been a huge point in our favor. A CCKW tagged in Kansas hauling firewood from Ohio to Minnesota can travel across Wisconsin with absolutely no concerns. Well assuming the driver has a current license to operate motor vehicles.
I am seriously concerned as well why we have supported and cooperated with the WisDOT.
Paul and his group have been left to their own and have fought a determined and resourceful battle. They deserve the thanks of all MV owners and the MVPA BOD as well.
Kevin Lockwood
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by undysworld » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:40 am

Ernie,

Kevin is correct. Due to state reciprocity laws, out-of-state vehicles can operate freely on Wisconsin roads. Here's the statute which exempts residents of other states from Wis. registration requirements:
341.40(1)(c)
(c) The jurisdiction in which the vehicle is registered allows vehicles that are registered in Wisconsin to be operated tax free upon its highways under conditions substantially as favorable to residents of Wisconsin as to its own residents.

How would you like to live in Wisconsin, vote here, and pay the taxes here, and have less operating privileges than out-of-state drivers? I don't like it. That's why I think we need to get SB-392 passed. It ain't perfect, but it's a start on expanded operating privileges for milvehs. Anybody who wants to join me in supporting it, while there is still time, is welcome.

Thanks for the supportive posts.

Paul
1966 AM-General M35A-2
1973 DeTomaso Pantera
1976 Steyr-Puch Pinzgauer 712M
M-416 Trailer (behind Pinzgauer)
1980 AMC Jeep CJ-5

Info on Legislation at: http://www.alfaheaven.com/MilitarySecti ... Legis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:34 am

Just a few short pages ago the 392 guys offered to kill their bill if the 404 guys would kill theirs....and basically start all over again to write another bill that would do what 392 started out to do....

....but apparently the 404 guys would not go along with it....

So I hope everyone in WI is now satisfied with the results! I could not agree more with the guys that say "Let this be a warning to the HMV owners in other states"....

...and I will repeat what I posted myself many pages ago...."United we stand, divided we fall".....and as far as I can see, the divisions and lack of defined and agreed upon language everyone would support and an agreement not to go for "half a glass" when it came to certain models, makes, years or types practically handed WisDot a victory on a silver platter.

WisDot had an issue over the INTERPRETATION of existing laws that a properly worded and all-encompassing bill could have made LAW that eliminated any "interpretation" at WisDOT....but instead there is now a bill/loophole for Pinz, DUKW and M715 owners big enough to drive their vehicles through so to speak, and the rest of the HMV owners are now just "parade vehicle" owners.

Now it seems the "Blame Game" is where we are at.....that an the realization that now that you have sold the farm down the river, you will have to get a bill to AMEND what you should have stood together to include in 392 .....IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Instead of bitching at this point, if you have something to add to a NEW bill then quit moping over what you let happen and get back to changing what you just let go down....I somehow think complaining about it now is "TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE".
Chuck Lutz

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ernie Baals » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:08 am

Hi Paul and Kevin
Thanks for the reply.
I understand that states are supposed to accept other states DMV regs. But there are many examples of vehicles being legal in one state, being ticketed in others. CDL licencing and fed regs were set up to eliminate this, but a new hornets nest has been open. Cal for example requires a commercial licence to drive a 2 1/2 ton because it has 3 axels. :roll:
There is one state, i cannot remember which, it is either Mont, Idaho or one of the northwest states, that does not allow M151s on there roads at all. Due to the fed demill regs.
This is a very slippery slope we are on, not unlike the battle that the NRA fights everyday.
Hi Chuck, usually i am on the other side of the fence with you, but this time we seem to be eye to eye in agreement.
Everybody, but the 392 guys got sold out. And not they are looking for a scape goat and poor Paul is being singled out.
What is trulyt ironic is that , from my view point, Paul has been doing the best/correct thing all along, with very little support.

Politics at its worst, play one side against the otherm divide and conquer, Wisc DMV played the game well and won this battle, and the entire Mil veh community lost.
Ernie
Rip Dad 1/22/24 to 12/21/11
I will always love and miss you.
Ernie Baals MVPA 104C and 3104, AACA, SJC MVPA

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ben Dover » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:55 am

Whipping the topic into a frenzy just creates hype, it is best to take a thorough level headed approach and not divide the collectors. One representative is enough.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by StudebakerM275 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:09 am

To restrict the 6x6 truck's the 1.25 ton+ truck's to off road and parade use is simply a waste of good truck workable affordable truck's . . .

The Dells has been giving "Duck" tours for decades perfectly fine . . .Whats going to happen to them ?


Mike
1953 Studebaker M275.
1962 GMC K4500.
1969 AMC-AMX.
1976 Arctic Cat Jag.
1977 Ford F350.
1982 AMC-Jeep J/20 Honcho.
1988 AMC-Jeep V8 Comanche .
1992 Trans Am GTA.
2007 Honda Rubicon.

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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Old Dodge Guy » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:06 pm

Ben Dover wrote:Whipping the topic into a frenzy just creates hype, it is best to take a thorough level headed approach and not divide the collectors. One representative is enough.
Whipping the topic into a frenzy just creates hype ........Agreed!!!
it is best to take a thorough level headed approach and not divide the collectors. ......Also I agree! I am surprised that was allowed to happen.
One representative is enough ......Somewhat agreed, depends who it is and what viewpoint is being represented. If my representative was telling my to shoot myself in the foot and call it good, I would opt for a different representative :!:
Still crazy after all these years.
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Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

Post by Ben Dover » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:19 pm

Stick with Jeff, he will see this thru. He is focused and has demonstrated the correct temperament.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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