U>S> House Votes to remove Rebel monuments from Gettysburg.

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Re: U>S> House Votes to remove Rebel monuments from Gettysburg.

Post by Steve Webb » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:42 am

Good we agree that losing doesn't mean you can't remember. Also the CSA was not recognized as a legitimate gov't by the US gov't and not by any other gov't in the world at that time. Great Britain and France recognized them as belligerents so they could engage in trade. That being known then when a soldier was killed on either side he was an American soldier (citizen) no matter if he was from Alabama or Maine. A monument is an American monument and should be a teachable moment to educate.

Also there are many monuments and memorials for Korea and Vietnam on many different levels of gov't including other Federal Properties beside those in D.C. Track the ACLU trying to get rid of them.
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Re: U>S> House Votes to remove Rebel monuments from Gettysburg.

Post by 17thAirborne » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:20 am

Cal.Bar wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:15 am
I told you I don't agree with those who would pull down the confederate statutes, but you don't care......WHY is THAT 4 year piece of Southern history so important to YOU that we need 1500+ monuments all over the South to it?...DO you believe that the Southern instigated war was just? Why do you believe they were fighting - and why is that so important to YOU today?
He states he doesn't agree with them, then proceeds to extoll his disdain for the south, and imply (by YELLING at times), that those who support the statues are somehow misguided...aka RACIST. In otherwords he DOES agree with them so it seems to me, But i could be wrong. (sorry for YELLING)

Then he implies its okay that those who want to tear down the statues can deem the issue important, but you cannot deem it important if you want them to stay. A clear double standard applied.

Folks, this is very similar to a liberal tactician at work. They will imply that their opinion is superior to all others and if you disagree with them you are a "Lyin dog faced pony soldier." (to quote JB)

Never disagree with a liberal as you will incur their wrath, they will spit on you, defund your programs, tear down your monuments, burn your cities and call you vile names.

This is what Nov 3 is all about.
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Re: U>S> House Votes to remove Rebel monuments from Gettysburg.

Post by Steve Webb » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:39 pm

Boy it is a shallow hole to stand in and said Lincoln did nothing regarding Colonization of Negroes. He made an address on August 14, 1862 to a committee of Colored men at the White House to start a Colony in the Chiriqui region of Panama. It is quite lengthy so I won't go into detail but he did take action and along with Senator Pomeroy to establish this colony. It was in the works including funding and a letter was prepared on Sept 10th for his signature. The project was dropped after Honduras, Costa Rico and Nicaragua objected. The whole matter had been under his cabinet consideration in late 1861. The New York Tribune published what was going to happen in August 15, 1862. The initial plan was for 100 men and families to go.

He also supported the American Colonization Society which was a back to Africa movement and how Liberia got founded. He had no part in it though. That was in 1854

My source is 1953 copyright of a book by the Abraham Lincoln Society printed by the Murray Printing Company Forge Village Massachusetts.
I believe it trumps, polifacts, snoopes and wiki what ever by a substantial margin. For what it is worth the article that you referred to on polifacts said it searched the internet for relevant articles. Ha try looking at a book!
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Re: U>S> House Votes to remove Rebel monuments from Gettysburg.

Post by 17thAirborne » Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:24 pm

Well written Steve.
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Re: U>S> House Votes to remove Rebel monuments from Gettysburg.

Post by loni17thAirD » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:11 pm

God help this nation when we go down this rabbet hole. I place most this garbage at the feet of the Democrat party. The same party that brought you Jim Crow, ... and the civil war!!! The same party that hates President Trump and the people that voted for him. You always have to ask the question, what is the end game? The people you see trying to burn down cities have no idea about this country. Defunding police will never work in any city. Our best hope is lunch bucket joe stays in his basement with his party. Term limits for members of the US house and senate would be the best move. You would have to force this down their throats. The teachers unions and democrat rule have destroyed the schools and colleges in this country. I like to call it bachelor's degree with a fifth grade education.

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Re: U>S> House Votes to remove Rebel monuments from Gettysburg.

Post by Steve Webb » Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:25 pm

If this continues at some point it will be possible to say Slavery did not exist. No visible proof will be anywhere and those who do shallow or no research will have the internet saying anything and being believed. I am 64 and glad the end is closer than the beginning. Lenin was right you don't have to have a bloody revolution you just have to get to the children. Some shame on us for letting that happen.
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Re: U>S> House Votes to remove Rebel monuments from Gettysburg.

Post by 17thAirborne » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:43 pm

Steve Webb wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:25 pm
Lenin was right you don't have to have a bloody revolution you just have to get to the children. Some shame on us for letting that happen.
And that my friend is why we homeschooled our children. I'll be 60 this year and am happy to add two young adults to the mix who can analyze things for themselves and don't rely on sickipedia.
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Re: U>S> House Votes to remove Rebel monuments from Gettysburg.

Post by loni17thAirD » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:13 pm

I hope the same people that voted these career politicians into office are willing to vote them out. I'm 60 years old and worry about the world my granddaughter's will grow up in!

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Re: U>S> House Votes to remove Rebel monuments from Gettysburg.

Post by Bluedevil1 » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:15 am

As a registered Democrat and Biden supporter this part of the bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-con ... /7608/text is sloppy.

I get that some of the monuments were put up during the Jim Crow era but it is very hard to tease out the Civil War Centennial commemorations from Jim Crow era and try to understand the groups original intentions in putting up a Confederate monument. Is it to slyly show dominance of one racial group over another or is it to commemorate 100 years of the Civil War?

I think a better solution would be to add some plaques around the monuments that better place it within historical context. If you actually go to Gettysburg and look at the monuments many of them lack historical context and only include a brief description of what the person did in that spot.
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Re: U>S> House Votes to remove Rebel monuments from Gettysburg.

Post by blitz67 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:37 am

"I think a better solution would be to add some plaques around the monuments that better place it within historical context" And thinking like this is exactly why we are even talking about taking down statues. Our schools have become Marxist training centers turning our kids in to retarded soy drinking American haters. Historical context????? How about just good old common sense and education, If you have to put up plaques to explain the civil war then we have lost our country!

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Re: U>S> House Votes to remove Rebel monuments from Gettysburg.

Post by blitz67 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:38 am

And just who in their right mind would identify as a Democrat these days?? I would rather put a bullet in my brain than identify as a Democrat.

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Re: U>S> House Votes to remove Rebel monuments from Gettysburg.

Post by Bluedevil1 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:39 am

I am a registered Democrat because the GOP left me. I used to be the party of ideas now it is the party of a thrice divorced, cheating husband who lies, dishonors the military, avoids the draft, sought help from foreign govts to win elections, engages in racism, wants to take guns without due process (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxgybgEKHHI). The GOP debased itself for a man who bankrupted a Casino. The GOP isn't a conservative party anymore it is a cult of personality.

I would be one thing if Trump has a come to Jesus moment and asked forgiveness of his sins and then work on not committing them. He hasn't really done it and in the couple times he has apologized he goes right back to being...Trump. Biden on the other hand has apologized for past transgressions and it remains to be seen if he falls back to old habits (sniff, sniff). I get that people aren't perfect but I expect adults to work on doing better.

That doesn't mean the Democrats have issues, they do or that Biden is perfect (he isn't). However, the Democrat issues are different. Both sides are not the same.

I'd like to see the GOP ruined in Nov so we can get an actual conservative opposition party (I dont have any issues with conservative ideology, its needed to balance out liberalism; I have lots of issues with the GOP) that doesn't engage in anti-democratic behaviors like voter suppression and offers real solutions instead of calling stuff like Climate Change a Chinese Hoax. Reasonable people can disagree reasonably about what the solutions are but to tell everyone to REMAIN CALM, ALL IS WELL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro and not do anything about is outrageous.

Circling back to your points

Our schools have become Marxist training centers
Huh? I hope they teach kids to be trained marxists as well as trained capitalists, conservatives, libertarians, liberals, utilitarians, socialists etc. Teach them the ideas and philosophies so students have a grasp of the nuances. People that want to cancel teaching marxism in school yet rail about cancel culture in other aspects come across as hypocrites. As a former teacher I taught my students Marxism. It was literally in the curriculum which was created by a GOP controlled general assembly in VA in the mid 00s.

NOTE: Stuff you read online or get from Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity is designed to entertain and/or outrage because keeping people upset is an easy way to make dollar bills. Same criticism is applied to WAPO and NYT too. Even some liberal columnists have began asking if keeping people outraged all the time is helpful. Things are a lot more nuanced and shades of grey than black or white like they might be presented. A lot of time context is missing when we see a video. The video only shows us what THEY want us to see.

turning our kids in to retarded soy drinking American haters.
Teaching that America has had issues with Racism doesn't turn people into haters. It's the failure of our nation to do so that makes people disappointed. You teach the good and the bad.


Historical context????? How about just good old common sense and education, If you have to put up plaques to explain the civil war then we have lost our country!
It isn't about explaining the Civil War it is about contextualizing statues that were put up during the Civil Rights Movement and the southern Massive Resistance against it as a way to show white dominance. OR is it simply about commemorating a Civil war? If so, why add participation trophies of the losers? Some context added to statues of confederate monuments would go a long way to better contextualize them.

However, the current Bill demanding taking down statues in Gettysburg and other parts is just sloppy. Like there is no other solution other than TAKE THEM DOWN? Please, such a stance is the bigotry of small ideas.
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Re: U>S> House Votes to remove Rebel monuments from Gettysburg.

Post by 17thAirborne » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:48 am

I see you are big into reenacting. Are you a veteran also?
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Re: U>S> House Votes to remove Rebel monuments from Gettysburg.

Post by Bluedevil1 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:23 am

Nope. Enlisted in July 2001 and was in for about 6months and then discharged for having Asthma. Spent the last couple months pushing paperwork, waiting for my DD214 to process. Won an award for my ability to push paper. A small token, I guess. I don't consider myself a veteran and I don't represent myself as such. Tried rejoining a couple times but could never get a waiver for it, even during the Surge. In the end, I found there are other ways to serve the nation I love.

Went into teaching and taught in several different states in several different kinds of environments ( urban, suburban, and rual. It was so rural it didn't have enough money for the other r) with several different kinds of student populations. Won some awards for my teaching ability. Finally ended up in downtown Baltimore at an all girls school in 2015, 99% black and I am a white male. Liked the kids, admin was awful. Was there during the Freddy Grey riots/uprising. Had great conversations with the students about a wide range of issues. A metric ton of teachable moments.

Not sure if you ever had the opportunity to live and work in a major urban center that was decimated by White Flight but let me tell you, you learn in the words of Jacob Riis, "How the Other Half Lives" without the staged photos. And it is not pretty. Our country is clearly failing lots of people and we can do so much better. Kids I taught didn't hate America, they were just disappointed. Big difference. Kids like, adults just want America to live up to the ideals it stands for. But arguably that's the story of America. Fighting to make her be better!

We then relocated at the end of the year for my wifes job. I am no longer teaching but have been eying someways to serve. Been thinking auxiliary police (or maybe going into Police academy), state guard, volunteer firefighting. I'm open to ideas if you got any!
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Re: U>S> House Votes to remove Rebel monuments from Gettysburg.

Post by 17thAirborne » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:20 am

First of all you sound like you really want to help make things a better place. I commend you for those ideals. You have to agree that "better" is in the eye of the beholder. Many of the ideals esposed by the ANTIFA groups, BLM and a host of liberal politicians are not in harmony with our constitution. You should know that having been a teacher.

Second, there are some things that you say that many on this forum will take issue with. Most will remain silent only thinking you as ignorant of reality and truth, blinded by ideals. You don't seem ignorant to me, only in need of some deeper historical thought and an greater understanding of cause and effect. Look at what is happening now in Minneapolis. Your friends called for defunding of police (removal of a fascist agency in your parlance), and now the city is devolving into criminal chaos. Those who called for defunding are literally asking, "Where be the police?" This is simply cause and effect. Conservative minded people saw this clearly before and warned this would happen, now it is coming to fruition. Cause and effect.

I will probably be chastised for engaging with you, but No man is beyond saving and neither are you. Here are a few things to consider as you, in such a seemingly angry tone, declare your woke faith. You asked for ideas, and in a spirit of compassion and thanks for the blessings that God has heaped upon me I offer a few morsels for you. The words may seem harsh, but sometimes a friend tells you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear.
Bluedevil1 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:23 am
Nope. Enlisted in July 2001 and was in for about 6months and then discharged for having Asthma.

Then you of all people should not take cause to disparrage another man who did not serve for reasons YOU do not know or cannot comprehend. Regardless of what you think of him politically we do not want to hear it. We're all sinners, as you well know. So stop throwing stones. Make your voice heard in the election booth,

Been thinking auxiliary police (or maybe going into Police academy), state guard, volunteer firefighting. I'm open to ideas if you got any!

That seems hypocritical to me, don't you think?. You disparrage the governement and then call for Anarchy, then you wish to join the auxilliary police. Your social media posts, no doubt, will prevent you from being hired. That is my advice to you. I would stick to reenacting.
As for other ideas, I would seriously reevaluate your view on how to effect change in our country. Helping to drive paid aggitators to a riot (CNN calls them protests) is not a patriotic way to effect change. All politics start at the local level. Get involved in your local area and help to elect those who support your ideals. Joining ranks with upset people demanding social change who burn, loot and injur the innocent is CRIMINAL. I'm sure you agree with that. Take the emotion out of it, look at things logically, and don't turn to rioting when you wake up on Nov 4th and are devistated that the ANTIFUK tactics have not worked.

I listen to your ideals, and your anger and am glad that my wife and I home schooled our sons. They learned about God, the constitution, true service and RIGHT and WRONG. Oh and also Readin, Ritin and Rithmatic :lol: .The wheels of our education system have fallen off the cart and in about 20 years we will pay the price for this. Its coming...Cause and Effect.

Don't get mad, use logic and reason to effect change. Don't effect change by burining innocent store owners business down. That's just stupid. Don't you agree?
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