M38A1 in later service
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M38A1 in later service
A good friend of mine was in the 101st Airborne as a MP in the 1980’s, possibly in Europe. He has told me that at this time they used M38A1s. I find this difficult, but not impossible to believe. I thought that by this late date, only M151s were used.
He also mentioned that one day they turned in the Jeeps for Humvees, and steel pots for Kevlar.
He owns a M38A1 painted like his MP Jeep in a dark, very flat green with black markings.
Does anyone have any input on this? I do know that many units disliked the M151. I used one in the mid-late ‘60s (Army) with no problems.
He also mentioned that one day they turned in the Jeeps for Humvees, and steel pots for Kevlar.
He owns a M38A1 painted like his MP Jeep in a dark, very flat green with black markings.
Does anyone have any input on this? I do know that many units disliked the M151. I used one in the mid-late ‘60s (Army) with no problems.
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Re: M38A1 in later service
While on TDY early 1982 at NAS Key West Fl. the Navy issued me an M38A1 to use while there.
We also had a General/Admiral fly in in a T33. Was surprised it was still being used as well.
We also had a General/Admiral fly in in a T33. Was surprised it was still being used as well.
Doug
Sacramento Area
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1943 GPW-125334 (Sold)
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Sacramento Area
1943 Willys MB
1943 GPW-125334 (Sold)
1962 M170
1959 Willys Wagon
- W. Winget
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Re: M38A1 in later service
Europe received the first of most every issued vehicles for immediate replacement, the M38A1 did not last past the early 60's as anything more than a TMP (Transportation motor pool) vehicle, (basically a post has extra non-tactical vehicles like busses, sedans, etc. that are not part of the units equipment) as it was not a "tactical vehicle issued by TOE (Table of Organizational Equipment) which authorized replacement parts and standardization of parts and loadout configuration (especially in airborne operations...where rigging and kits are specific to vehicles).
Most likely, if you parked any jeep beside him he would state like many 'We drove those when I was in service' even if it was an MB/GPW in great shape...
Why? well unless they were 'interested' in military vehicles as a hobby, the end user just went to the motorpool or rode in whatever vehicle came along, so you end up with movies like Patton or the Battle of the Bulge with M38's or Cj's representing WWII vehicles and 98% of the audience not catching the fact they were not around during that period...
So not to rain on his parade, but unless he has a photo of it being used, it is VERY (VERY) doubtful an active unit with TOE daily facing pending Soviet attack....would have a non-issue item in service for anything other than parade duty where they were stuffed away as a special use vehicle for VIPs or such and slipped through the turn in process when the newer vehicles were issued. A M38A1 in Germany would have had to have a lot of luck with zero support $ or parts supply if it were to survive from the mid 50's onward.....
Just not possible, one off maybe, but not by TOE.
By '86 I was riding in a MUTT with holes in the floorboards (I cut plywood to close the floors off) as a REFORGER issued 'Observer' vehicle, which was a 'turn-in' vehicle from a unit that was preparing to receive the HUMVEE coming into service.
V/R W. Winget
Most likely, if you parked any jeep beside him he would state like many 'We drove those when I was in service' even if it was an MB/GPW in great shape...
Why? well unless they were 'interested' in military vehicles as a hobby, the end user just went to the motorpool or rode in whatever vehicle came along, so you end up with movies like Patton or the Battle of the Bulge with M38's or Cj's representing WWII vehicles and 98% of the audience not catching the fact they were not around during that period...
So not to rain on his parade, but unless he has a photo of it being used, it is VERY (VERY) doubtful an active unit with TOE daily facing pending Soviet attack....would have a non-issue item in service for anything other than parade duty where they were stuffed away as a special use vehicle for VIPs or such and slipped through the turn in process when the newer vehicles were issued. A M38A1 in Germany would have had to have a lot of luck with zero support $ or parts supply if it were to survive from the mid 50's onward.....
Just not possible, one off maybe, but not by TOE.
By '86 I was riding in a MUTT with holes in the floorboards (I cut plywood to close the floors off) as a REFORGER issued 'Observer' vehicle, which was a 'turn-in' vehicle from a unit that was preparing to receive the HUMVEE coming into service.
V/R W. Winget
Looking for 1918 Standard B 'Liberty' truck parts
- W. Winget
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Re: M38A1 in later service
PS: Kevlar helmet issue had ZERO to do with units drawing HUMVEEEs, it was a uniform item based on unit of assignment, so...again forward deploying or deployable units received the "best" gear 1st. and production of the Kevlar, Gortex jacket, etc. Nomex gloves, other items depended on the "unit of assignment"
7th ID, 82nd, 101st, are rapid deployment assets, so best of the best. Vehicles and weapons are based on when the unit can draw the new pieces out and fully transition (including training) to be 100% mission capable.
When we transitioned from M113's and M60's to Bradleys and M1's, we (2-30th Infantry and the Brigade) were basically out of commission for combat duty for an equivalent time, even though we (3ID) as a whole was still combat ready in the middle of Germany.
V/R W Winget
7th ID, 82nd, 101st, are rapid deployment assets, so best of the best. Vehicles and weapons are based on when the unit can draw the new pieces out and fully transition (including training) to be 100% mission capable.
When we transitioned from M113's and M60's to Bradleys and M1's, we (2-30th Infantry and the Brigade) were basically out of commission for combat duty for an equivalent time, even though we (3ID) as a whole was still combat ready in the middle of Germany.
V/R W Winget
Looking for 1918 Standard B 'Liberty' truck parts
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Re: M38A1 in later service
Thanks for your answers on this. I agree that John most likely didn’t pay a huge amount of attention to what he drove, but he still insists that he used a M38A1. Photos of the M151 didn’t look like his Jeep.
Just another conundrum of us old soldiers. John drives his Jeep in parades, and I drive my ‘44 MB. We frequently take them out into the hills too. They get a workout.
Just another conundrum of us old soldiers. John drives his Jeep in parades, and I drive my ‘44 MB. We frequently take them out into the hills too. They get a workout.
- dpcd67
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Re: M38A1 in later service
I was in the Army in the 70s and 80s,(and 90s) and having an M38A1 in the 80s was impossible, in any troop unit. Perhaps some Garrison had one, but he was in an M151. I find that most soldiers and officers have little memory of the details of what equipment they used; they were just tools of the trade. I drove a jeep, is a common reply.
The gentlemen who went to a Naval Air station; the Navy still had M1 Rifles then too; but they weren't going to deploy anywhere and use them.
The gentlemen who went to a Naval Air station; the Navy still had M1 Rifles then too; but they weren't going to deploy anywhere and use them.
U. S. Army 28 years.
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Re: M38A1 in later service
Thanks. That’s pretty much my thoughts on the matter, but I really don’t want to burst his ballon. He’s very adamant that the 101st MPs had the last M38A1s. He gets a huge kick out of telling people that.
This question was to satisfy my curiosity.
This question was to satisfy my curiosity.
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Re: M38A1 in later service
At MCAS Cherry Point in 1982, we had a Navy Sea Bee unit fly in with all their gear to include a June of 1952 M38A1. I was a military vehicle collector, so I know what a M38A1 is, and for this one to have been dated June of 1952, it had to have been one of the first ones made.
The unit let me check out the jeep, and I wish we had cell phones back them because I would have gotten some photos, mainly of the data plates on her.
Talking with the Seabees, the jeep was more or less a unit hack for running around with. I do remember also, the front fenders were dented in.
I have a M38A1, a M38A1C, and a M170...and would have loved to have had that one.
One of the few, Frank USMC RET
The unit let me check out the jeep, and I wish we had cell phones back them because I would have gotten some photos, mainly of the data plates on her.
Talking with the Seabees, the jeep was more or less a unit hack for running around with. I do remember also, the front fenders were dented in.
I have a M38A1, a M38A1C, and a M170...and would have loved to have had that one.
One of the few, Frank USMC RET
- dpcd67
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Re: M38A1 in later service
No regular Army Combat Arms unit has time for such novelties as a pet jeep. Hard enough keeping your TOE stuff running, and if your OR rate falls below 90%, heads roll. Meaning commanders lose their jobs. Been there, done it, got the T shirt. In fact, got one on now. Brown.
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Re: M38A1 in later service
The USMC had M38A1 Jeeps built special for them in the 1960s. They had locking rear differentials, and special waterproofing, along with rear crossmember reinforcement for securing them in the holds of the ships of the rapid deployment forces. Some of the early 1952 M38A1 Jeeps drawn from US Army stock contracts, and assigned to the Navy and USMC, were modified with the rear crossmember, some were not.
The Marines didn’t like the M151.
They were around a lot longer than anyone in the US Army would know about. I’m not surprised at that. Most Army guys I know have very little knowledge of Navy or USMC vehicles or their usage. No disrespect, intended, but the smaller numbers of vehicles ordered & used, but generally more specialized for the mission.
I personally had seen ww2 trucks still in use on a naval base in the 1970s.
The Marines didn’t like the M151.
They were around a lot longer than anyone in the US Army would know about. I’m not surprised at that. Most Army guys I know have very little knowledge of Navy or USMC vehicles or their usage. No disrespect, intended, but the smaller numbers of vehicles ordered & used, but generally more specialized for the mission.
I personally had seen ww2 trucks still in use on a naval base in the 1970s.
"Have fun with your jeep"
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Jeep'in NY, About One Hour From Canada
42 GPW*42 M3 Halftrack*51 M38*52 M38A1*53M37
Vietnam Veterans of America unit 193
MVPA # 435
Member Niagara Military Vehicle Assoc; Ontario, Canada
- W. Winget
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Re: M38A1 in later service
Yep, Navy still has a Wooden Ship with sails too, but it's not a Front Line Deployable Combat asset.
Red Horse (USAF airfield expeditionary construction unit) had two M35A2's running around FOB Dwyer in Afghanistan in 2009, while USMC had a Cobra and a Huey taking off behind them. All I could imagine was how the Services/combat didn't advance much over 40 years past Vietnam, and that the reliability of the Deuce was superior to the modern era replacements in some areas or performance (likely dust filtering in the air cleaner and reliability of no electronics to go bad) Deuce was out of the system for almost 20 years at that point (I owned two)
These were front line units with ancient gear in terms of equipment life expectancy, and Red Horse's ability to get parts in theater had to rely on the fact they were an Air Force asset with flights coming in from the States daily.
Not so in the Army...it goes by Sea, then overland usually before arriving in a depot and being sorted, so figure a two to three month replacement window. So only the newest gear is issued and stocked for parts in the system that deploys. No space for a strap hanger vehicle to deploy with them.
V/R W. Winget
Red Horse (USAF airfield expeditionary construction unit) had two M35A2's running around FOB Dwyer in Afghanistan in 2009, while USMC had a Cobra and a Huey taking off behind them. All I could imagine was how the Services/combat didn't advance much over 40 years past Vietnam, and that the reliability of the Deuce was superior to the modern era replacements in some areas or performance (likely dust filtering in the air cleaner and reliability of no electronics to go bad) Deuce was out of the system for almost 20 years at that point (I owned two)
These were front line units with ancient gear in terms of equipment life expectancy, and Red Horse's ability to get parts in theater had to rely on the fact they were an Air Force asset with flights coming in from the States daily.
Not so in the Army...it goes by Sea, then overland usually before arriving in a depot and being sorted, so figure a two to three month replacement window. So only the newest gear is issued and stocked for parts in the system that deploys. No space for a strap hanger vehicle to deploy with them.
V/R W. Winget
Looking for 1918 Standard B 'Liberty' truck parts
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Re: M38A1 in later service
Whatever USMC helicopters you saw in A$$crackistan weren't Vietnam vintage (those were scrapped years before 2009). They might look similar, but they're entirely new and improved aircraft. Google it or not. I was active duty USMC 1972-2001 and never once saw an M38A1. Doesn't mean there wasn't some somewhere. We had plenty of M35's, M715's, and M151's (until the 5-ton and Hummer came along).
Ron D
1951 M38
1951 M100
1951 M38
1951 M100
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