Serial number plate versions and antenna mount questions

1952 - 1968, M38A1, M170, questions, discussions, regarding anything related to the M38a1 series.
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Prarie dog
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Serial number plate versions and antenna mount questions

Post by Prarie dog » Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:53 pm

Hello everyone,
I am new to posting but have been trying to review the posted info before I sent out my own questions.
I have been working way to long an an M38A1 redo and have finally reached the point where I am trying to detail some questions.
First: The body has a finger screw battery box cover, the frame is I believe the older version with a place to mount hinges but the grill and fenders were "Updated" over the years by the military based on the color of the layers of paint on the parts when it was removed. The attachment point for the cross braces were welded in to the rear of the opening for the hood. The paint was Marine Corp Green to go with the rear bumper and then Air Force blue with a layer of primer between. I had no data plates when I got the vehicle but the patent plate was covered in paint behind the passenger seat. When I cleaned off several layers of paint it was in great shape and it has 60561 stamped on the Serial number location. It does not have an MD or any other letter combination in ft the numbers and its design looks different then any other that I have so far seen. The plate is silver and black and the Willy Overland on top is all capital block letters as are all the rest of the lettering. In the lower right corner in very small letters it says "PHOTO REPRO REF DIV ALB GA". While no definite ref for age, the engine has MD12899 and then either 9, 0 or some mark. It looks like it might have been stamped with 2 stamps.
Any ideas on approximate age? Was it common to keep updating the vehicles? I believe it came out of a sale at either Norton or March AFB in the late 70s.

Antenna mount question: I could not find any holes to indicate that there were any "Normal" antenna mounts on the jeep when I was redoing the body. That said,the body had 3 UHF bulkhead fitting mounted through the body. One on the rear body panel center line but about 1/3rd the way down and one that was next to the spare tire holder. The next is on the passenger side just in ft of the door opening and just below the windshield. There were also a set of holes some filled, in the body between the door frame and the slave plug tub. Lastly, the top of the spare tire holder has 2 holes drilled in the top plate. Any idea on what they might have been connected to inside and out? Could the holes in the top of the spare tire holder been for something more like mount for a warning light / convoy/ follow me light?
Thanks for any help on this.


70th Division
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Re: Serial number plate versions and antenna mount questions

Post by 70th Division » Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:08 am

Hello,

Welcome to the G !!!!
Pictures would really help for us all to take a look at your jeep.

These are great Jeeps !!!
It sounds like you have an early M38A1, with the early type battery cover, and with the hinged grill .
Your spare tire mount top is where a radio antenna is mounted. I have an M38A1 that had a radio, but no antenna holes. I found that there was an antenna mounted to the spare tire mount.

If the body tag is original or a military replacement, then you can use that as the serial number for your reproduction dash tags. They always matched each other.

Keep us posted !!

Best Regards
Ray

Prarie dog
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Re: Serial number plate versions and antenna mount questions

Post by Prarie dog » Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:36 pm

Thanks for the reply,
I have tried to attach some pictures but we will see if i did it correctly.
If they are here, then one is of different looking Patent plate that that I mentioned and the other is of one of the places where a bulkhead fitting was located. As reference, the top of the gas can holder is what is in the lower right of the image. It had a 90 degree fitting on the inside that was attached to a cut off section of small diameter coax cable that was held into the gap between the reinforcing metal at the top of the back of the jeep by insulated loops. This kept it out of the way of the seat if it was in place. Since it was cut off I have no idea where it went except toward the drivers side. The others were just holes that looked a lot like the one in the picture. I tried to attach a picture of the vehicle but it did not load properly so I will try with a different picture or one from a different location later. Additional information is that the title has the same number on it as is on the Patent plate but with the other plate missing from the dash and the patent plate being unreadable before I cleaned it I am unsure how the folks who had it before me got the number unless they pulled the data plates before I got the jeep. Some additional parts like the grab bar were missing and they made the comment that they had pulled some parts off the jeep and sold them and put on a civilian Carter carb switched out the distributor to a civilian version and made the electrical 12 volt.. I asked for any parts left they had pulled and got the rear seat frame with springs but no covers plus a box with a mil carb core and another box with some other bits. One fun thing, pulled off the jeep but in the box, was that someone, the brackets were blue so I assume someone in the AF, had mounted 2 older aircraft cockpit lights on brackets on the dash bolts. They are set up to use as sort of map or area lights. One puts out a red area light with a shutter and the other is white with a dimmer and narrow to wide adjustments for a map type light. One of those useful field mods. They are fully functional.

I had looked at the standard mount used on top of the spare tire mount on the M38A1 and I believe it uses 4 bolts not 2 so that was why I had asked about what the 2 holes might have been used for. They may have been used for something else. For an example on an airport location to hold the orange and white checkered flags used on vehicles driving on the ramp, taxiways or runways. There was no gas can carrier on the body when I got it so I have no idea if there might have been some sort of antenna mount put in that location using the same mounting holes but I am working under the assumption that they had some sort of antenna on the back of the vehicle and or maybe on the side by the passenger door at some point due to the bulkhead fittings. I am just to figure out what it might have been. Did anyone run coax out of the vehicle for some other use?
All the best
Attachments
image1.jpeg
image0.jpeg

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Re: Serial number plate versions and antenna mount questions

Post by 70th Division » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:20 pm

Hello,

This sounds like a job for a real M38A1 guru 😁😁

That data plate looks like it was from maybe a late model M38A1, there was or is, a big USMC rebuild depot in Albany, Georgia that overhauled the jeep.
The Marines had these jeeps built for them all through the Vietnam War, so likely a 1960's model.

Mine is a 1953, so there would be likely differences.
With a USMC jeep, built for them especially, there likely were many features not found on the earlier Army versions .

Hopefully someone with that knowledge can add info here about those jeeps !!!

Best Regards,
Ray

Prarie dog
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Re: Serial number plate versions and antenna mount questions

Post by Prarie dog » Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:31 pm

Thanks for the information on the depot repair in GA. That may explain the interesting Patent plate.
The origins of the jeep is an early version, screw on battery cover, drains in the proper location for an old body tub and the frame is the oldest version with welded nuts for the hinges, bumper and lifting shackles. Also the oval cut out on the metal on the inside of the frame rails. At some point in its history the more modern fenders and grill were added to the older tub and fame. They welded on the attachments for the cross braces to the grill in their normal location and took off the hinges on the frame rails. Based on the dings and dents in the body tube, it has had a lot of use. Based on what Marines that I know have told me the Marine Corp had to keep fixing things far longer then other branches due to the budgets they have had over the years.

Hopefully one of the M38A1 gurus will have a chance to look at the Patent plate picture and other info on the bulkhead fittings in the body and have some ideas.
I have been looking at pictures, manuals and reading web sites to try to help me figure out at least the Patent plate question with no great success so far. That was why I came here to see if anyone with more history on the M38A1 might have some ideas. Thanks again for your input.

Attached is picture taken when many things were completed. The civilian soft top is because I has issues with mold on the canvas top due to living in a temperate rain forest at the time. You will also notice other, not accurate to an M38A1 bits.It was a daily driver so some compromises were made for cost, I worked with what came on it when I got it, part availability when the work was done and safety reasons. Yes it has 15 inch rims and road tires. That what came with it and going to 16 inch rims with ND tires to drive in the rain seemed like a potential safety issue. Still fun to drive!
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Whole camera 18 June 06 077.jpg

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Re: Serial number plate versions and antenna mount questions

Post by 70th Division » Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:52 pm

Hello,

That is good looking jeep !!
I am thinking the gurus might be on a summer vacation 😁
I did find mention of the Albany USMC jeeps on youtube.

Type in Civil Defense Jeep, and it will show an M38A1 , ex USMC jeep from the Albany Depot, being restored as a Civil Defense Jeep as many were given to them.

He mentions some radio equipment being originally mounted on the grill, and a search light that the Marines had added.

Matt Fox may be a G member, and I know the host Bob is as well.

Take a look, maybe he has some info on these Marine jeeps.

He may be a guru 😁😁 ??


Best Regards,
Ray

Johnsamschulz
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Re: Serial number plate versions and antenna mount questions

Post by Johnsamschulz » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 pm

Hello Ray

Did the USMC rebuild the WWII jeeps using a special contract Cj2a or M38 frame?

vr

John Schulz


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