M38A1 Serial numbers

1952 - 1968, M38A1, M170, questions, discussions, regarding anything related to the M38a1 series.
russellUK
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M38A1 Serial numbers

Post by russellUK » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:53 am

Hi to all, I am new to this wonderful forum and hope you will forgive me if I ask basic and obvious questions. I have owned my M38A1 since September 2010, completed a fair bit of work on my vehicle (teach me to buy on emotion rather than experience) and wish to discover more facts about its life and service. Previous owners have made many claims (the usual service in Korea etc..) but I can find no hard evidence to back up any claims what so ever. The more I read about serial numbers the more questions I have as regards to whether mine is an original USA (claimed to imported from the USA in 1983) or Nekaf built vehicle? The only identification markings I know are real are the chassis number MD18013 and engine number MD119489, all other data plates are reproduction and therefore of no help. I wish to repaint and use markings which would have been real at some point in its life, which I know is almost impossible, but I thought if I can at least know whether it was a USA or Dutch vehicle would be a start? If anyone can help I will be very grateful. Kind regards Russell


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Re: M38A1 Serial numbers

Post by VinceHolyoak » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:55 pm

Russell - you say "The only identification markings I know are real are the chassis number MD18013 and engine number MD119489" - where have you got the chassis number from - is it actually stamped into the frame? I hope other people might chip in and correct me if I'm wrong - but I believe that US made M38A1s just had the numbers on the data and patent plates, not stamped into the frame itself. If yours is stamped into the frame it suggests to me that it is a NEKAF (or Canadian, or Greek or some other).

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Re: M38A1 Serial numbers

Post by russellUK » Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:35 am

Hi Vince,

Thank you for your prompt reply. It is stamped into the chassis frame & was imported from the USA in 1983, so it could well be a Canadian M38A1 then? How I prove that is anyone's guess but I will keep trying.

Thank you for your information and all the best to you sir.

kind regards

Russell

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Re: M38A1 Serial numbers

Post by MASH_4077 » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:02 am

Is the body tag in place behind the passengers seat on the wheel well?
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Re: M38A1 Serial numbers

Post by russellUK » Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:54 pm

Sadly not sir. That was one of the first places I looked and the only thing there were the small screws at each corner with the remnants of the original tag (red paint residue present on the remnants of the old tag) probably removed to be used by someone else.

I have spent some time reading different opinions from many informed people but I have to admit it is difficult to arrive at a firm conclusion and without access to the manufacturers production lists I may never get any clarity? Of course I still enjoy the chase and get great pleasure working and driving my vehicle, so its not the end of the world and one never knows, there may well be someone who has some history on the vehicle.

Thank you for getting back to me, it is very much appreciated.

kind regards

Russell

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Re: M38A1 Serial numbers

Post by NEKAF4EVER » Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:04 pm

Russell,

According to my Nekaf-records (already containing data of more than 2100 Nekafs and more to come.. ) your M38A1 is a Nekaf from 1960 and had a registration number that started with "KR"
MD18007 1960 KR-54-98
MD18011 1960 KR-57-75
MD18013 1960 KR-##-##
MD18015 1960 KR-54-95
MD18017 1960 KR-54-73

Many many Nekafs were exported from the large military stockyard in Soesterberg, Holland to the UK (e.g. Witham Special Vehicles) during the 1990's. One can recognize a Nekaf easily: turning lights with a protection bar on both sides, DS-2 bracket between driver seat and body, 'Bloksma' or 'Nekaf' stamped in radiator, 'NEKAF' stamped in lower part of shockabsorbers, Small circle with the name "Nekaf" sanded in corner of the windows, small metal loops on both sides of right headlight to fasten blue or green column glass. Flagholders on front bumper. Many Nekafs do have a polyester front floor since a large overhaul operation, etc.
One of my Nekafs had only driven 8000km since 1958 and still has all its original parts. See pictures on website of F.M.V. The Green Sparks.

If you want more information, just let me know.

Regards,

Harold Bergers
The Netherlands
Last edited by NEKAF4EVER on Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Harold B.
The Netherlands
1956 M38A1 (NEKAF)
1958 M38A1 (NEKAF)

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Re: M38A1 Serial numbers

Post by russellUK » Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:52 pm

Hi Harold,

Thank you for your comprehensive reply. I am pleased to learn that it is probably Nekaf, my issue is that the body has non of the Nefaf specific parts or markers (ie. those you mentioned in your email). It is as per an US manufactured body but the engine definitely has Nekaf components (I will check the data plates on the generator and starter motor in the morning) This is why I am beginning to think that it might well be a mixture of reclaimed and spare parts as the main tub looks as though it's from a US model, chassis from a Nekaf, replacement engine from a Nekaf and a number of USA made spare parts (replacement data tags, speedometer etc.) installed before I bought it. There are no Nekaf markings on the rad as I had to rebuild it soon after purchasing the vehicle and I would have seen it then. The screen was replaced with an after market frame and glass before I bought it but I have ordered a new weather seal and will get new glass cut as soon it arrives from the USA, so again sadly there are no clues there either - very frustrating.

The import information from Netherlands is very interesting and is more than probable, so I will try and go back through what paper work I have to see if there are any clues? I have replaced all shocks and suspension so I know there were no Nekaf marks on them either.

Even if it is a collection of many different vehicles, the good news is that it runs a sweet as a nut, all the body works done and I am soon to repaint it. I have most of the spare parts I need to finish her so it should be a very nice M38A1 by the end of winter.

I am very grateful to you for your information, it has given me new avenues to explore, so thank you.

Kind regards

Russell

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Re: M38A1 Serial numbers

Post by NEKAF4EVER » Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:40 am

Good morning Russell,

Other specific Nekaf items are the bracket with white reflector on both fenders and the two small extra white lights on the grill.
When engines were overhauled at "575 TD Herstelwerkplaats" (575 Technical Troops Repair Shop) at the Kromhout Kazerne (Kromhout Barracks) in the town of Utrecht, Holland, they were painted in RAL6019 (Pastel Green) or RAL6014 (Olive Green MT) during the later years.

Kind regards,

Harold
Harold B.
The Netherlands
1956 M38A1 (NEKAF)
1958 M38A1 (NEKAF)

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Re: M38A1 Serial numbers

Post by russellUK » Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:22 am

Good morning Harold,

Thanks again for your information. There are no reflectors or lights on the grill - I will take a few pictures later today so I can show you why I am so mystified?

I have also just checked the data tags on the engine and generator and they are both without doubt Nekaf. The generator no. is 899190 and the engine no. MD117877 built on 24-10-78 Rev. no. 68. I know that's not the original engine as that was MD 119489 (registerd on the UK DVLA V5 doc.) so there has been a replacement sometime before I purchased the vehicle in 2010 and they failed to register that with the authorities.

I also have pictures of the vehicle prior to the original rebuild (given to me when I bought it) which show it in a very poor state (I have looked closely at the dents, marks and I really do think its the same vehicle) and it is definitely not a Nekaf body so you can see why I have been unable to arrive at a conclusive view regarding identity?

The engine & chassis are in excellent condition (reason why I bought it), but I think you are correct in that is a Nekaf. If you could see the state the body was in prior to rebuild, then a replacement would explain why it is such good condition and one of the other members did say that US built vehicles never stamped the chassis which is something I was unaware of.

This vehicle has a lot of history, some of which is sadly missing, but I am beginning to think that this is a 'hotch potch' vehicle put together from various available components which would explain why I have so many questions.

I will continue to investigate as it's interesting to work out where and what has been done to this wonderful vehicle. When I bought it I drove it 367 miles home across mountains and a few motorways in the middle of winter and it never missed a beat. Everyone said I was mad but I thought it was a great way if getting to know her and being ex-military I just knew if it did go bang then its not the end of the world and everything can be fixed!

Thanks again for your interest and I will get a few photo's done as soon as my kids can show me how to use this fiddly phone.

Kind regards

Russell

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Re: M38A1 Serial numbers

Post by russellUK » Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:27 am

Hi Harold,

Just one thing I forgot to mention, the engine is painted pastel green. So thanks for your heads up - very useful indeed.

Have a good day

Russell

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Re: M38A1 Serial numbers

Post by NEKAF4EVER » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:59 am

Hi Russell,

You wrote that your original engine was MD119489.
The original engine in my 1958 Nekaf is MD114346, so your engine is much younger
Most Nekafs ended their military life without their original engine, so probably the MD119489 was not its first engine.

Kind regards,

Harold
Attachments
Engine and chassis numbers.jpg
Engine and chassis numbers.jpg (72.97 KiB) Viewed 5335 times
Harold B.
The Netherlands
1956 M38A1 (NEKAF)
1958 M38A1 (NEKAF)

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Re: M38A1 Serial numbers

Post by Rosedale » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:34 pm

I just bought an M38A1 I believe to be a 1953. The problem I'm having is that I can't find the VIN Number or Serial Number. The engine has a Serial Number on it and it is MD53141.
All the identification plates that were on the tub at one time are all gone and missing. How can I determine the Serial Number of the Jeep itself. Is there a number on the Jeep frame anywhere?
If someone could help that would be great.

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Re: M38A1 Serial numbers

Post by 4X4M38 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:30 am

Without the dash plates or the wheelhouse patent plate you might be out of luck.

Prior to a date in the 60's vehicles didn't have or use a VIN number.
Military jeeps were tracked by the Gov't by their registration numbers (the numbers painted on the hood).
Many states required vehicles without a VIN to use the number stamped on the block for registration.

There have been instances where folks were lucky enough to find their dash plate serial number stamped in
a spot or two on the frame. First place to look would be on top of the front left frame rail between the grill
and lifting brackets.

What number is on your title?

Take care,
Brian

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Re: M38A1 Serial numbers

Post by Joe Gopan » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:58 am

Have to disagree, all Military Jeeps, MB, GPW, M-38, M-38A1 had Factory Serial Numbers stamped on their data plates. MB/GPW had in addition to the data plates, the Serial Numbers on the LF Frame Horn.
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Re: M38A1 Serial numbers

Post by Jim 123jeep » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:40 am

Hello,
I am new to this group and have been reading with interest.
I purchased a M38A1 6 years ago and have been using it regularly.
The chap who I got it off said he bought 3 in an auction in Holland and brought them back to the UK and registered them over here.
Their are no data plates with numbers on fitted to the dashboard and the engine is painted in a lime green colour. The indicators on the side have protection bars around them so I am assuming that it is a NEKAF model. I have found a plate on the innerwing behind passenger seat which states its a MD and has number 414 and 57144. 10418R.
Am I right in presuming this is the id number and is their anyway I can find out the original unit markings etc. I found in the glove box some headphones and microphones along with a lead light which plugs into the dash.
I presume it might have had a radio set as there is a small radio mast on the left rear corner and the electrics are 24v with shielded electrics and plug leads.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thankyou.


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