M38 reinforcement steel on rear, questions about

1952 - 1968, M38A1, M170, questions, discussions, regarding anything related to the M38a1 series.
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Ben D. Daugherty, SR
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Post by Ben D. Daugherty, SR » Thu Oct 02, 2003 4:48 am

Hi All, please endure as I try to reach Greg and off line e-mail just bounces back:

Hi Greg, you are absolutely correct in that there are many places that are
extremely hard to get to. I ordered and used two spot welding cutters from
Eastwood with a total cost of about $40.00 and in addition I ordered their
seam separator for another 20. The cutters work well in places you can get
to but the area you are referring will dictate limited use of these tools.
I used the separator (they call it a different name) and had a lot of luck
with it. Just a common drill bit will help in some areas. The cutters
should work well on the tops of the fender wells (they both cut a larger
diameter hole than I would have liked) but the rear of the tub will pose
special problems. By doing both corners, both tail light panels and the
rest of the rear, I avoided a lot of the problems that you will face by just
selecting certain pieces---actually, the cost is not that much more to go
for broke as I did and it will be much easier.

I will be glad to send you the exact names and how to contact Eastwood if
you want me to. However, unless I get it out tomorrow, I will be away until
the 16th.

Heck, I just stumbled on to my Eastwood catalog so here are some answers:
Eastwood:
1.800.345.1178 or www.eastwoodcompany.com. Items: Panel Separating Knife
$12.99; Adjustable Spot Weld Cutter #19068 (this one cuts around the spot)
$20.00 with replacement blade---did not use this much; Pro Spot Weld Cutter
3/8" $19.99--this one cuts the actual weld and works good at those place you
can get to. Again, I used the knife the most and you can sort of guide it
to do any damage to the panel you want to get out.

Hope this helps. With the corners, strongly suggest that you have Sheldon
at JeePanels or whoever you buy them from to make them to reach about 1/8"
below the top rail and use your cut off tool to cut just below the top
rail---you will find an inner channel so be careful not to cut through this
as it makes great place to rest the new corner and keep it right shape and
curve.

I assume you will have the tub off the frame. If so be sure you have it on
blocks and have it leveled exactly. Must run, if I can be of more help,
please get in touch. Semper Fi Ben
Semper Fi Ben


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Post by kevin c » Sat Nov 08, 2003 5:18 pm

A 25 year old recollection has crept back into my fragile mind. I had a 58 CJ5 rust bucket that we had bolted the tailgate shut to keep the fenders from flapping. After a few months the stress imposed on the 'u' channel of the upper lip of the body caused it to fail, resulting in a drooping fender and an inch or so long crack above the place where an M38 reinforcement plate would have been. A steel top, radio equipement or people riding on the fenderwells of a bolted tail should create some problems eventually.

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Re: M38 reinforcement steel on rear, questions about

Post by devilnutz » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:11 pm

Looking for info and found this old thread, glad I found this. I just removed the reinforcements because it looked like some hack job with bad welds and couldnt figure why they were there. Decent rust between them and the tub, no holes yet but it could have been a problem. Its an early model, under 2k, so they were seem to have been a field add on.

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Re: M38 reinforcement steel on rear, questions about

Post by JMZ421 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:23 pm

IMG_1287 (1).JPG
IMG_1287 (1).JPG (24.49 KiB) Viewed 1122 times
The weld on my 11/51 M38 is near perfect
and is part of the history of the M38. I would
weld those back on. Just my opinion
John

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Re: M38 reinforcement steel on rear, questions about

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:52 pm

There were two reasons for the reinforcement, to offset the inertia from the tailgate , the spare tire and loaded 5 gal Gas can could cause metal fatigue ant the other reason was to strengthen that area for the Hard Cab Enclosure. A few M-38's did not get the mod, it was done at unit level. There was no spec for the type weld, gas or arc were the most common. There was a MWO for the fix.
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Re: M38 reinforcement steel on rear, questions about

Post by devilnutz » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:43 pm

Thank you for the info and updates. I'll plan to put them back on since there was an MWO to fix. I will need to cut new, these ones were prety thin and rusty on the inside as if there was moisture getting between then and tub. I will search the MWO posted in the forum for specifics. Previous owner had a build up of filler over the welds so they were a bit unexpected.

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Re: M38 reinforcement steel on rear, questions about

Post by Joe Gopan » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:21 am

The welds on the majority were not pretty. They were issued preformed and I would assume the same 18 Gage as the body sheetmetal. They could be installed at unit level.
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Re: M38 reinforcement steel on rear, questions about

Post by dpcd67 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:07 am

Welders at org level (meaning Battalion Maintenance) were uniformly bad; many of the ones I had were. I sometimes helped them when I was BMO. I liked burning out the broken bolts on sprockets. One welder was so bad that the Motor Sergeant made him my driver; he couldn't drive either and I often drove the jeep in the field before he killed us. He joined the Army to be an underwater welder, so they assigned him to a tank battalion. Perfect fit.
So, yes, the welds on the M38 rears are often not pretty.
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Re: M38 reinforcement steel on rear, questions about

Post by Joe Gopan » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:43 am

was pathetic at times to see a 2,000 mile M-38 with bubble gum welds., muc of the time the job got tuched up with a coat of 24087 slapped on with a brush from a gallon can. It really showed on M-38's that still had their original 2430 factory finish.
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Re: M38 reinforcement steel on rear, questions about

Post by devilnutz » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:23 pm

Being mine is an early M38 and the welds were less than desirable, I'm sure it was done in field. The fact that many had bad field welds could be good news for me and my lack of welding experience. If I mess up they'll look original. haha
In all seriousness though my brother in law is a certified welder, I don't want anyone to think Im going to screw up a piece of history.

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Re: M38 reinforcement steel on rear, questions about

Post by D Pizzoferrato » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:34 am

A funny related story about those reinforcements. 10-12 years ago, a friend in Mass was looking for a clean original unmolested M38 for a discriminating collector acquaintance of his. This collector was a CJ guy and very knowledgeable about them. He had some pristine CJs; a beautiful and bountiful collection. I was asked if I knew of any M38 that would fit the bill. I directed my friend to contact Bud Werner in Tracy City TN as I recalled a conversation with him regarding just such an M38. As I was in the middle of my PBR project, I didn't have time for another Jeep. The deal was made ($3000 as I recall, an outstanding deal for a clean, complete, rust free, unmolested unit). Arrangements were made for transport to CT. The M38 was delivered to the new owner. I vividly recall the phone conversation about how can anyone claim this vehicle is in superb condition when it has obvious issues. The buyer was claiming seller misrepresentation because of "2 plates that were welded on by a blind guy, with bubble gum in a thunderstorm." Even after explaining the MWO, he was so distraught that he didn't want to own the wreck! We arranged a sale to another friend in New England. I think Joe Hall ultimately did a restoration on it and showed it at the MVPA Convention in Cleveland.
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Re: M38 reinforcement steel on rear, questions about

Post by Joe Gopan » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:45 am

Some newbies are thier own worst enemy, it only gets worse as time goes by.
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Re: M38 reinforcement steel on rear, questions about

Post by dpcd67 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:34 am

I had the same reaction to the first M38 I saw, but quickly learned the truth. And M37 tail gate reinforcing strips; same thing; ultra crude welds.
Remember, there are two kinds of Bubbas; Private Bubba, and Civilian Bubba; same guy.
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Re: M38 reinforcement steel on rear, questions about

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:03 am

I have a late 70's dated GI Issue M-37 Tailgate I bought NOS that has not been modified.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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