M38 exhaust system
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M38 exhaust system
I have a 52 M38 flat fender. The exhaust exits the right rear side. Not sure if this is right. What do you think? Can't find a diagram, unless it's the same a a CJ3A[/quote]
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thats correct, exhaust pipe tip should be directly under the passenger side bumperette, Zane
AKA : " The Jeep Czar"
43' Ford Gpw
45' willys MB (currently under restoration)
51' M38 , m100 trailer
53' M38A1
62' M38A1
61' M151 , m416 trailer
84' m1009 blazer
53' m43
53' Dodge M37
48' Cj2A
51' Cj3A
54' Cj3B, 60' cj3b
62' M170
43' Ford Gpw
45' willys MB (currently under restoration)
51' M38 , m100 trailer
53' M38A1
62' M38A1
61' M151 , m416 trailer
84' m1009 blazer
53' m43
53' Dodge M37
48' Cj2A
51' Cj3A
54' Cj3B, 60' cj3b
62' M170
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exhaust position
It should also be positioned to match up with the accessory vertical exhaust pipe extension that comes with the "deep water fording kit"- aka snorkel kit- that mounts on brackets on the right rear corner. So far I have not seen a replacement M38 exhaust system that fits correctly, without modification, usually involving quite a bit of heating, bending & tweaking. Email me your email address & I'll email you a couple of photos.
Rich
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M38 Ehaust
Thanks for the answers. I wanted it to be correct
Jerry
Jerry
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M38 exhaust
Hi Cuz
Thanks for the diagram. I can't go wrong now!
Jerry
Thanks for the diagram. I can't go wrong now!
Jerry
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exhaust
I am putting exhaust pieces in place to check fit in my M38. The muffler and exhaust pipe are NOS. The difference I see between the prototype pix and my installation is that the muffler has its outlet on the side closest to the crossmember.
The outlet my the muffler exits directly below the pin for the shackle. The shackle is resting on the muffler outlet flange. Is thiis right?
Also the muffler hanger I have did not have a cushion between it and the crossmember. I don't see a cushion in the parts book.
Should the entire exhaust be hard mounted to the frame? In other words are there any cushions between the exhaust pipe hanger and cross member or muffler hanger and rear cross member?
Tom
The outlet my the muffler exits directly below the pin for the shackle. The shackle is resting on the muffler outlet flange. Is thiis right?
Also the muffler hanger I have did not have a cushion between it and the crossmember. I don't see a cushion in the parts book.
Should the entire exhaust be hard mounted to the frame? In other words are there any cushions between the exhaust pipe hanger and cross member or muffler hanger and rear cross member?
Tom
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I have not seen any flexible mount straps. I am assuming the engineers assumed with the low motion engine mount isolators that the first long run to the crossmember behind the driver allowed enough flex and rigid prevented unwanted rattle noise. I agree I would not be real confortable with this rigid mounting system on a daily driver.
Cuz (AKA Wes K)
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 6? M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D & 47 T3-C
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 6? M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D & 47 T3-C
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M38 tailpipe
To add, I used standard rubber strap isolated hangers- for one thing, the reprop muffler/tailpipes I've seen/used required considerable tweaking to fit correctly, and the flexibility of the standard hangars allowed a bit of flexibility in positioning, in addition to isolating vibration & allowing movement.
The manual illustration provided above is correct- the end flange of the standard tailpipe should be in the space behind the rear shackle (which is attached to the outside bumperette bolts, not the inside ones- as per the illustration in the manual, which is correct for all M38's, not just the prototype), about midway between the inside edge of the bumperette and the shackle, when installed. (The rear shackle is straight, the front one is bent 90 degrees). To make the installation completely correct, remember that the reason for the flange is to mate up to a matching flange on the vertical tailpipe extension that's part of the "snorkel" kit. The vertical tailpipe is installed more or less over & behind the rear panel seam, a couple of inches away from the panel (to the rear), and the bottom of the extension curves 90 degrees to meet the standard tailpipe flange. This means that the standard flange must point towards the center of the vertical tailpipe, meaning somewhat forward, and the flange itself must be "plumb"- that is, the surface must be absolutely vertical, otherwise it would not mate up with the vertical tailpipe extension without being repositioned.
Again, the rear shackle should NOT be directly above the tailpipe flange, or else there's be no way to use the shackle to hold down the Jeep without the tailpipe being in the way.
I can send you some photos of the completed assembly on my M38 (including the vertical tailpipe extension) if you send me your email address.
Rich Saylor
saylor@redshift.com
The manual illustration provided above is correct- the end flange of the standard tailpipe should be in the space behind the rear shackle (which is attached to the outside bumperette bolts, not the inside ones- as per the illustration in the manual, which is correct for all M38's, not just the prototype), about midway between the inside edge of the bumperette and the shackle, when installed. (The rear shackle is straight, the front one is bent 90 degrees). To make the installation completely correct, remember that the reason for the flange is to mate up to a matching flange on the vertical tailpipe extension that's part of the "snorkel" kit. The vertical tailpipe is installed more or less over & behind the rear panel seam, a couple of inches away from the panel (to the rear), and the bottom of the extension curves 90 degrees to meet the standard tailpipe flange. This means that the standard flange must point towards the center of the vertical tailpipe, meaning somewhat forward, and the flange itself must be "plumb"- that is, the surface must be absolutely vertical, otherwise it would not mate up with the vertical tailpipe extension without being repositioned.
Again, the rear shackle should NOT be directly above the tailpipe flange, or else there's be no way to use the shackle to hold down the Jeep without the tailpipe being in the way.
I can send you some photos of the completed assembly on my M38 (including the vertical tailpipe extension) if you send me your email address.
Rich Saylor
saylor@redshift.com
Rich
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The primary purpose of the four shackles are lifting not holding down. The frame has tie down footman style loops. And in this world of display, fun and parade driving it's not an important issue.
The fording kit tail pipe extension installation deliberately leaves final placement of it's mounting brackets to the field installer so they may make minor adjustments for minor variations in the tail pipe positioning. I would advise fording kit installers to install the pipe as a dummy. If connected it makes a terrible burn hazard to young children and slow learning adults. If you must run hot exhasut through it I would recommend you use the perferated heat shield found on the 151 kits.
The fording kit tail pipe extension installation deliberately leaves final placement of it's mounting brackets to the field installer so they may make minor adjustments for minor variations in the tail pipe positioning. I would advise fording kit installers to install the pipe as a dummy. If connected it makes a terrible burn hazard to young children and slow learning adults. If you must run hot exhasut through it I would recommend you use the perferated heat shield found on the 151 kits.
Cuz (AKA Wes K)
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 6? M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D & 47 T3-C
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 6? M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D & 47 T3-C
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exhaust
Rich, Understood: however, my NOS muffler is definately different from that in the picture and there is no way it will exit behind the shackle. The exhaust pipe is NOS and there was no tweaking involved. Both hangers were NOS and already bent around the NOS muffler and NOS exhaust pipe. In summary, there seems to be no way to come up with the configuration you describe using my NOS parts.
As noted in my earlier post, my muffler exit pipe is in a different location vs the prototype picture. It is also more direct in its curve to the fording pipe flange.
Note also that the prototype photo shows a muffler hanger with what appears to be a cushion. It is also pointed outboard to get to the muffler. The NOS pieces I have were set up so the hanger bolted directly to the frame and pointed inboard.
The lifting shackle now rests on the triangular flange so I can airlift the jeep if needed.
I do not have the tub on the frame but willl check the fording pipe fitment when I get to that stage.
I would like to see your pix via email: w2ila@cox.net
As noted in my earlier post, my muffler exit pipe is in a different location vs the prototype picture. It is also more direct in its curve to the fording pipe flange.
Note also that the prototype photo shows a muffler hanger with what appears to be a cushion. It is also pointed outboard to get to the muffler. The NOS pieces I have were set up so the hanger bolted directly to the frame and pointed inboard.
The lifting shackle now rests on the triangular flange so I can airlift the jeep if needed.
I do not have the tub on the frame but willl check the fording pipe fitment when I get to that stage.
I would like to see your pix via email: w2ila@cox.net
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M38 tailpipe
i was out at my hangar today & took some photos; as soon as I download them I'll send them on. However the end of the stock pipe's flange is about 3" or so inboard of the center of the shackle bolts- not right behind as I said earlier, and pretty much pointed straight to the tailpipe, parallel with the rear crossmember. I realize that it may or may not be the same as the original installation, BUT- the vertical tailpipe I used was fresh from the NOS kit, still in its original box, AND the single mounting bracket provided with the kit (for the tailpipe) mounted to factory predrilled holes in the rear of the Jeep- so there really isn't much way to adjust the tailpipe extension to fit the location of the tailpipe flange, which is why I had to do a lot of fiddling with the tailpipe/muffler combination. Also realizer that the M38 and M38A1 muffler/muffler kits are similar, but are NOT the same. I not only had to re-bent the rear pipe from the muffler, but the pipe running from the header pipes to the muffler as well, to clear the various underbody/chasis bits. I have no way of telling which parts you have but if you have a not-too-accurately made generic one, or possibly the A1 kit, that might be part of the problem. Regardless, there's nothing holy about a proper fit vs. an improper fit, and using only an oxyacetylene torch carefully, corrections can be made without over-crimping the tailpipe(s). Anyway I'll send the photos on a bit later.
Rich
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exhaust
Wes,
Thanks. Your two thousand words also added another one thousand words of explanation.
Everything I have is exactly as the picture except for the muffler outlet pipe. The difference I see on mine now is that the tailpipe of the muffler extends another few inches. Instead of the triangular outlet flange being an inch or two past the frame rail, it extends all the way over to the lifting shackle bolt area. Other than that, everything is nicely tucked up to the frame and rear cross member.
I'll wait until I have the tub in place before making any changes. The snorkle will ultimately determine if I need to cut and paste.
Thanks
Tom
Thanks. Your two thousand words also added another one thousand words of explanation.
Everything I have is exactly as the picture except for the muffler outlet pipe. The difference I see on mine now is that the tailpipe of the muffler extends another few inches. Instead of the triangular outlet flange being an inch or two past the frame rail, it extends all the way over to the lifting shackle bolt area. Other than that, everything is nicely tucked up to the frame and rear cross member.
I'll wait until I have the tub in place before making any changes. The snorkle will ultimately determine if I need to cut and paste.
Thanks
Tom
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I caution folks often that NOS military surplus stocks are not always surplused out because they weren't needed anymore. Often they surplused out defective or incorrect parts to purge their stock of it and any parts that did not meet spec, shape or strength requirements.
Cuz (AKA Wes K)
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 6? M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D & 47 T3-C
45 MB, 51 M38, 54 M37, 6? M101A1, 60 CJ5, 76 DJ5D & 47 T3-C
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