Help in ID'ing the difference. M38 &M38CDN

1950 - 1952, M38, questions, discussions, regarding anything related to the M38.
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N6FEG
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Help in ID'ing the difference. M38 &M38CDN

Post by N6FEG » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:44 pm

Hi
I'm going to look at what I think is a Willys M38...but not so sure now. It has the amber running lights on both front fenders like I've seen pics of on the Canadian mil jeeps.
It has though the Willys M38 nomenclature panel on the dash . Wich is just screwed onto the dash.The s/n on the data plate should match one on the vehicle. Where on the frame would I find it??
Are there any other differences between the two jeeps I could see. I believe the Canadian M38 was made only by Ford.
I have a lot to learn...thanks for the help.
Paul


Ron D
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Re: Help in ID'ing the difference. M38 &M38CDN

Post by Ron D » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:01 pm

Hi Paul,
There's no frame serial number (tag or stamp) on the U.S. M38 from the factory. Don't know what Canada did. Might maybe be a number on the U.S. frame if it was ever rebuilt at a depot during its life, but no telling how, where, or what number might have been used.

If the Willys serial number on the dash plate matches the serial number on the Patent Plate (attached to the leading front slope of the passenger side wheel well) then you have a pretty good indication of being original.

The engine serial number (stamped on the boss above the water pump on the L-134) has no relation to the jeep serial number (i.e., the engine serial number doesn't match either data plate and was never intended to match them). An original M38 engine will have a serial number preceded by "MC" and a replacement engine will have a serial number preceded by "RMC".

Best thing to help you with positive i.d. is photographs!

A good site for M38 knowledge is the forum at willysmjeeps.com

Good luck!
Ron D
1952 M38
1951 M100

JMZ421
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Re: Help in ID'ing the difference. M38 &M38CDN

Post by JMZ421 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:33 am

If you are not aware reproductions serial number plates are readily available. The pictures of the plates the prior post mentioned could distinguish 'between original and non-original, if that's a concern for you. Also, you mentioned the plates are "screwed on". Early M38's did not have a master plate where the individual plates were rivetted to. John

N6FEG
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Re: Help in ID'ing the difference. M38 &M38CDN

Post by N6FEG » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:42 pm

Hi Ron & John
Thanks very much for your replies and all the helpful information. After I had posted this I spent more time rooting around on the web and wording my searches differently to find the info I need and only better that you verified what I had read elsewhere.
I had not know Willys stopped stamping the s/n on the frames after the war but Canadians do on their M38CDN.
The M38 Im looking to buy had beed bought out of state and brought here to Calif but never registered and just parked in excellent dry storage and not run for years.
The owner has clear title from the state he bought it in.
He's looking for it right now. I want to make sure the VIN being used on the title is whats on the dash data plate and the patent plate behind the passenger seat matching would be a plus.
Many years ago I got a WC57 command car from Michigan and had a awful time trying to get it registered.
I didnt want a repeat of that and this being Calif dealing with DMV has only gotten worse.
Going to look at it this Saturday and along with your gentleman's help I'm well prepared to check this M38 out.
Best Regards
Paul

Ron D
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Re: Help in ID'ing the difference. M38 &M38CDN

Post by Ron D » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:49 pm

Paul,
If you haven't already found it, this link might be useful information to help you figure out if you're looking at a M38.

https://www.cj3apage.com/index/m38.htm

Good luck!
Ron D
1952 M38
1951 M100

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Re: Help in ID'ing the difference. M38 &M38CDN

Post by JMZ421 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:29 pm

Paul, in addition to Ron's list, first thing in the morning buy a copy of Ryan Millers M38 reference guide and you will be prepared for that Saturday meeting. Well worth the money. John

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Re: Help in ID'ing the difference. M38 &M38CDN

Post by Ron D » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:56 pm

Ditto!
Ron D
1952 M38
1951 M100

N6FEG
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Re: Help in ID'ing the difference. M38 &M38CDN

Post by N6FEG » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:09 pm

Ron & John
Thanks again for the help and info.The M38 book is currently out of print and not avaiable. Did checkk out the link on the M38 and CJ3A comparisons. That was very informative.
I think I'm in good shape to check out this M38 this Saturday.
Thank you both again for the help its very much appreciated.
Take care
Paul

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Re: Help in ID'ing the difference. M38 &M38CDN

Post by Kendall » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:34 am

I don't know about titles in other states, but in Kansas my M38s and M38A1 are titled with the serial number stamped on the engine block. So if the number on the title does not match the data plates you might want to check the boss behind the water pump.
Kendall

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Re: Help in ID'ing the difference. M38 &M38CDN

Post by N6FEG » Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:23 am

Thanks Kendall
The seller will call tonight to hopefully have found the title. I'll have him give me the VIN # thats on it.
I'll check the engine block if the vin# doesn't match the one on the data plate.
Regards
Paul

Ken Perkins
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Re: Help in ID'ing the difference. M38 &M38CDN

Post by Ken Perkins » Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:12 pm

N6FEG, I'm in Livermore and have seen an M38 or two, if I can be of any help PM me...
1951 M38 #22936
1951 M100 DUNBAR
1953 m100 Dunbar
M416B1
2- M762
MVPA #11788
MVCC

dpcd67
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Re: Help in ID'ing the difference. M38 &M38CDN

Post by dpcd67 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:24 pm

Using the engine serial number for a title is super dumb on the part of the DMVs; engines are never even close to the real serial numbers on Willys jeeps; (only Fords have matching engines and frames). Here they use the data plates. Oh and the use of VIN is not really accurate; these vehicles have serial numbers. VIN was not standardized until like 1980.
Anyway, post some pictures. And try to steal a copy of the green book. At least get a set of TMs and study them, and yes the M jeep forum is great too.
U. S. Army 28 years.
Armor Branch

Ken Perkins
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Re: Help in ID'ing the difference. M38 &M38CDN

Post by Ken Perkins » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:28 pm

I see the M38 Reference Guide on Ebay
1951 M38 #22936
1951 M100 DUNBAR
1953 m100 Dunbar
M416B1
2- M762
MVPA #11788
MVCC

N6FEG
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Re: Help in ID'ing the difference. M38 &M38CDN

Post by N6FEG » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:04 am

Thanks Ken I saw that listing on Epay.
I'm trying to sort out the paperwork on this jeep which is not going to be easy. No bill of sales from the succession of owners and the only title was from Iowa which has the s/n from the data plate on the dash as the VIN, like dpcd67 said it would be coming from Iowa.
Did not go to see the jeep Saturday but plan to drive down to look at it with a friend hopefully sometime this Nov. Will bring a couple of batteries and see if we can get it started. I'd like to see if it at least turns over and I can hear it run before I plunk down my money.
Thanks for the help gentleman.

Paul


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