M151A1 begining of new project

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Hell On Wheels
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Re: M151A1 begining of new project

Post by Hell On Wheels » Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:43 pm

Im working on the support that runs across the body left to right that supports the front of the rear A arm. So you saying I need to cut the old one out complety? Ok that seems really hard to get into the space behind the tool box up under the body how it contours up.
That may be above my skill set getting into the areas I drawed out
Image
Do you have a way to get up in there or a trick? I cant seem to get the cutter up in there. Should I just cut as high as I can reach? Drilling out the spot welds I cant locate may be tough to reach.
Rickf wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:53 pm
The underbody repair kit is not made to go over top of the old channel. I know if fits over it but it is designed to have the old channel cut out completely and the new one welded in where the old one was. The weld flanges are further out so you have clean metal to weld to. That is why they are wider. If you put them over top of the old metal it will rust badly where they overlap.

I just noticed after looking again that you are working on the crossmember so that will be different. But keep what I said in mind if you need to get into the front to back channels.
Last edited by Hell On Wheels on Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Robert

1966 - M151A1
1986 - M998
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2009 - H3T

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Re: M151A1 begining of new project

Post by Hell On Wheels » Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:50 pm

here is what I have so far:

The under body replacement
Image

Here is the picture of the rear A frame mount. Laying down the frame patch I see this channel is the issue. I ask because the replace part seems to over lay not replaced the anger bolt holes. Is it supposed to lay underneath this A frame mount?
Image

If I were to cut the channel out how far do you recommend I stop before getting to this bolts? The arrow location?
Image

Test fit of patch. I need to prep this better with prime but just working first.
Image

Im thinking as you stated Rick is to cut the bracket out is to reach as far as I can then treat with rust treatment then prime. I dont know, this is a task.
Last edited by Hell On Wheels on Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Robert

1966 - M151A1
1986 - M998
2007 - M1102
2009 - H3T

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Re: M151A1 begining of new project

Post by hambone » Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:56 pm

Yes, you will get a better weld with the correct polarity.

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Re: M151A1 begining of new project

Post by hambone » Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:24 pm

I don't think that rear cross member was meant to be cut out, I think I've read where if that cross member was rusted or damaged, body replacement was needed. That cross member is solid across and the repair pieces are 2 parts, LH and RH, I would repair the actual cross member and if you fill necessary, cap with repair panel. I haven't replaced that cross member so I may not be much help on that one, but as mentioned, I don't think is was made to be replaced, maybe Rick or Guy will have better info. Do you have the installation instructions for the underbody kit?

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Re: M151A1 begining of new project

Post by Hell On Wheels » Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:12 pm

no I dont as Rick states to cut it out but that a solid channel. The lower portions have the rust as I cut into it was soft but the rest is preety solid it has surface rust and was hard to cut as my pictures shows. I have both left and right underbody patch kits which I bought from Guy a few years back. I would like to see instructions.
hambone wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:24 pm
I don't think that rear cross member was meant to be cut out, I think I've read where if that cross member was rusted or damaged, body replacement was needed. That cross member is solid across and the repair pieces are 2 parts, LH and RH, I would repair the actual cross member and if you fill necessary, cap with repair panel. I haven't replaced that cross member so I may not be much help on that one, but as mentioned, I don't think is was made to be replaced, maybe Rick or Guy will have better info. Do you have the installation instructions for the underbody kit?
Robert

1966 - M151A1
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2007 - M1102
2009 - H3T

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Re: M151A1 begining of new project

Post by lpcoating » Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:39 pm

I think Fil Bonica had the drawings for the repair kit. Maybe check with him?

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Re: M151A1 begining of new project

Post by Rickf » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:24 pm

Go back and read what I said! I said that I originally thought you were talking about the front to rear body rails, they are what gets cut out and replaced. Please do not put words in my mouth!! Here is what I said.

"I just noticed after looking again that you are working on the crossmember so that will be different. But keep what I said in mind if you need to get into the front to back channels."

In this case that particular channel was never meant to be replaced. As Hambone said, if you look in the manual you will see that part is x'd out and it says that if rust is found in this channel the body is to be scrapped and replaced. Now, obviously you cannot do that so what you need to do is exactly what you are doing. Cut out the rust back to good metal, clean very well and weld in new metal. But keep in mind that this is a suspension support and as such it is a stressed member so the welds have to be perfect and any hole positions also have to be perfect or the rear wheel alignment will be off.
Again, there are NO replacement parts for that channel other than the outer ends.

I'm sorry if I come off as an a$$hole but when people make it sound like I am saying THIS IS HOW IT HAS TO BE DONE, then yes, I will get pissed. I never tell people how it has to be done. I tell them how it should be done or I tell them how I do it and what they do after that is on them. Note above, I did not tell you HOW it had to be done, I simply told you WHAT had to be done and why.

The only time I will say it has to be done my way is if I am diagnosing a mechanical problem for you. Then yes, you need to do it the way I ask since that is the way the troubleshooting tree works, you do not skip steps. Many people over the years have interpreted my requests for this as a demand for "my way or no way" in all of my advice and that is simply not true.
1964 M151A1
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Re: M151A1 begining of new project

Post by hambone » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:28 pm

I think you are in good shape, that support actually looks to be pretty solid, I wouldn't cut out any of the stress/mounting points. Cut the rusty metal out and replace with new, now that you have access to the inner original panel, clean it well and rustproof it. Once you get the metal replaced and painted, you could add the replacement panels for a little added bracing.

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Re: M151A1 begining of new project

Post by Hell On Wheels » Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:09 am

Wow Rick, I didn’t think this would be a sensitive comment. That wasn’t the intent and don’t take it wrong this is only a chat room of ideas.
Rickf wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:24 pm
Go back and read what I said! I said that I originally thought you were talking about the front to rear body rails, they are what gets cut out and replaced. Please do not put words in my mouth!! Here is what I said.

"I just noticed after looking again that you are working on the crossmember so that will be different. But keep what I said in mind if you need to get into the front to back channels."

In this case that particular channel was never meant to be replaced. As Hambone said, if you look in the manual you will see that part is x'd out and it says that if rust is found in this channel the body is to be scrapped and replaced. Now, obviously you cannot do that so what you need to do is exactly what you are doing. Cut out the rust back to good metal, clean very well and weld in new metal. But keep in mind that this is a suspension support and as such it is a stressed member so the welds have to be perfect and any hole positions also have to be perfect or the rear wheel alignment will be off.
Again, there are NO replacement parts for that channel other than the outer ends.

I'm sorry if I come off as an a$$hole but when people make it sound like I am saying THIS IS HOW IT HAS TO BE DONE, then yes, I will get pissed. I never tell people how it has to be done. I tell them how it should be done or I tell them how I do it and what they do after that is on them. Note above, I did not tell you HOW it had to be done, I simply told you WHAT had to be done and why.

The only time I will say it has to be done my way is if I am diagnosing a mechanical problem for you. Then yes, you need to do it the way I ask since that is the way the troubleshooting tree works, you do not skip steps. Many people over the years have interpreted my requests for this as a demand for "my way or no way" in all of my advice and that is simply not true.
Last edited by Hell On Wheels on Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Robert

1966 - M151A1
1986 - M998
2007 - M1102
2009 - H3T

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Re: M151A1 begining of new project

Post by Hell On Wheels » Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:13 am

I was thinking of boxing in the old cross member with some patch work after treating it. Then maybe either installing the underbody patch as a compete patch/unit or cutting it down and overlaying it on the good spots so I can get to the welds easier. I think either way is better than it is right now.
hambone wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:28 pm
I think you are in good shape, that support actually looks to be pretty solid, I wouldn't cut out any of the stress/mounting points. Cut the rusty metal out and replace with new, now that you have access to the inner original panel, clean it well and rustproof it. Once you get the metal replaced and painted, you could add the replacement panels for a little added bracing.
Robert

1966 - M151A1
1986 - M998
2007 - M1102
2009 - H3T

Hell on Wheels https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi_blL ... z7Ukw8gbHg

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Re: M151A1 begining of new project

Post by Hell On Wheels » Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:29 pm

posting some updates on progress. Well I welded in the frame bracket not the best welding but the rust as much as I could remove is gone. Still my welding is nothing to brag about.

ruff in welding and patch work. removed all the surface rust treated with acid. Once it dried I treted with primer weld.
Image

Image

funny as hell. Moving on to the driver side.
Last edited by Hell On Wheels on Mon Feb 13, 2023 2:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Robert

1966 - M151A1
1986 - M998
2007 - M1102
2009 - H3T

Hell on Wheels https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi_blL ... z7Ukw8gbHg

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Re: M151A1 begining of new project

Post by Hell On Wheels » Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:37 pm

here is the driver side side panel

before:
Image

during:
Image

lots of sand, so much I could have made a sand castle;
Image

after removing the sand and using a wire brush and treating it with rust treatment acid. I let it dry then primed it. I dont know what happend this to picture. Maybe the sprit made the camera out focus.
Image

then I cut a piece of the bottom rail or the square edge. I didn’t have much body rust but that small corner piece. I figure remove as much of the dented pieces far enough back so that it would blend in and have a smooth surface.
Image

primed and painted
Image

done:
Image

now on to the fender top
Last edited by Hell On Wheels on Mon Feb 13, 2023 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Robert

1966 - M151A1
1986 - M998
2007 - M1102
2009 - H3T

Hell on Wheels https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi_blL ... z7Ukw8gbHg

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Re: M151A1 begining of new project

Post by Hell On Wheels » Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:53 pm

here is the fender top driver side. I didn’t like all the dents on this top and I wanted to figure an easier way to replace it. On the passenger side I had a hell of a time with that stiffer that supports the bow that is a bit@ch to cut out. It destroyed the top plate that the fender sits under and the stiffer sit underneath. Where the three bolt holes go. I had to remake all that and it wasn’t damaged at all it just where the fender gets sandwich between was to much work. I had to figure an easier way to replace this top.
Image

So I mapped out my cut area.
Image

here is the cut out fender top. I still needed to grid out some ruff spots.
Image

So I decided to cut back enough right before the stiffer and support bracket. Here is the ruff in fitting
Image

Welded in the fender top. Yes my welding sucks but it works. :mrgreen: Better leave that to the experts. "Remember motorpool restore"
Image

primered to let it dry then some sanding
Image

well its painted
Image
Last edited by Hell On Wheels on Mon Feb 13, 2023 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Robert

1966 - M151A1
1986 - M998
2007 - M1102
2009 - H3T

Hell on Wheels https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi_blL ... z7Ukw8gbHg

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Re: M151A1 begining of new project

Post by Hell On Wheels » Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:58 pm

when I first bought this rust bucket I had to cut off the spare tire bolt and couldnt get it to work. So in my earlier pictures I welded in the bolt but I never addressed the back plate where the hole was left and the bolt ran though it had a hole so well I have A.D.D. and just decided to cut a piece to fill it in.
Image

well here it is. I dont know why I didnt address it when I worked on the passenger side. I need to clean it up better but for now its filled in.
Image
Robert

1966 - M151A1
1986 - M998
2007 - M1102
2009 - H3T

Hell on Wheels https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi_blL ... z7Ukw8gbHg

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Re: M151A1 begining of new project

Post by Hell On Wheels » Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:59 pm

now for the final rust repair! the frame rail driver side. Man this side is bad.
Robert

1966 - M151A1
1986 - M998
2007 - M1102
2009 - H3T

Hell on Wheels https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi_blL ... z7Ukw8gbHg


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