bellcrank mod
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- G-Private
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bellcrank mod
is anybody doing a brass bushing instead of the bearings at the bellcrank shaft?
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- G-Corporal
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Re: bellcrank mod
Hi ,I’ve been running with a bronze bush in the front bell crank for more than 10 years with no problems.
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Re: bellcrank mod
Brass Bellcrank Bushings installed in MB/GPW did exist and were a common find during and after WWII. I have encounted many over the years. I do not have the part number. The Needle Bearings were WO-A-857. Am sure many of you have encountered one
The Brass Bearing was one piece and had a square hole in the side at the halfway point for grease from the fitting.
I seem to remember that the brass bellcrank bearing was mentioned in one of the WWII editions of "Army Motors".
I may have one of these NOS Brass Bellcrank Bearings in with my steering parts.Will take a fast look tonite.
The Brass Bearing was one piece and had a square hole in the side at the halfway point for grease from the fitting.
I seem to remember that the brass bellcrank bearing was mentioned in one of the WWII editions of "Army Motors".
I may have one of these NOS Brass Bellcrank Bearings in with my steering parts.Will take a fast look tonite.
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Re: bellcrank mod
The needle roller bearing in the bellcrank seems to have been a bit of 'over think' on the part of the designers. Such bearings are really good in high speed , fully rotational assemblies, such as small gears, two stroke crankshafts and big and little ends of conrods on small,, high revving two stroke engines. They work best where there is full rotation, as the rollers roll continuously, bathed in a mist of oil.
But on the jeep bellcrank, they stay mostly in the same position all their lives, with little directional turning, and when they do turn, it's very slow. As a result, from the pounding of the steering mechanism in from road use, the individual rollers pound, or brinell, a little groove on the spot where they are continually resting, and in relatively short time, give the shaft a fluted appearing surface. From that moment on, they don't even roll a bit on turning, but slip around in their individual grooves, till the shaft is rattly and loose. Tightening up the nut on top does not help for long, as the grooves are there permanently.
On the other hand, a proper fitting bronze bushing has full contact around the whole thrust side of the shaft, and when pounded by road shock, does not bash little flutes into the shaft. It takes the pounding on a full, smooth surface which has more surface area than the point contact of the rollers.
It does wear, but slowly and evenly, giving smooth movement to the bellcrank.
I've found that a well fitted bushing lasts longer than the rollers. Also, some (many) of the pivot shafts are not that hard, and the hardened rollers eat them up fast. But the bush rides nicely on a hardened or not so hard shaft.
I've got bushes on all my jeep bellcrank shafts.
But on the jeep bellcrank, they stay mostly in the same position all their lives, with little directional turning, and when they do turn, it's very slow. As a result, from the pounding of the steering mechanism in from road use, the individual rollers pound, or brinell, a little groove on the spot where they are continually resting, and in relatively short time, give the shaft a fluted appearing surface. From that moment on, they don't even roll a bit on turning, but slip around in their individual grooves, till the shaft is rattly and loose. Tightening up the nut on top does not help for long, as the grooves are there permanently.
On the other hand, a proper fitting bronze bushing has full contact around the whole thrust side of the shaft, and when pounded by road shock, does not bash little flutes into the shaft. It takes the pounding on a full, smooth surface which has more surface area than the point contact of the rollers.
It does wear, but slowly and evenly, giving smooth movement to the bellcrank.
I've found that a well fitted bushing lasts longer than the rollers. Also, some (many) of the pivot shafts are not that hard, and the hardened rollers eat them up fast. But the bush rides nicely on a hardened or not so hard shaft.
I've got bushes on all my jeep bellcrank shafts.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"..Bertrand Russell
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- G-Captain
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Re: bellcrank mod
I am interested in changing the roller bush for a bronze or oilite one. I guess I would need to have one made, Can someone please post a photo or drawing of one?
Cheers
Cheers
Rod Rushton - Winner 2013 MVT Wilkinson Sword Trophy
Exeter Devon UK
FORD GPW 202055 DoD 5 - 22 - 44 Serial# 20534360
MBT # 25553 DoD 4 - 43
Piper Cub 1944 L4H 480015 G-AKIB
1942 CHEVROLET G506 CARGO. #2NM 213219
1943 AUSTIN LIGHT UTILITY M6448770
Exeter Devon UK
FORD GPW 202055 DoD 5 - 22 - 44 Serial# 20534360
MBT # 25553 DoD 4 - 43
Piper Cub 1944 L4H 480015 G-AKIB
1942 CHEVROLET G506 CARGO. #2NM 213219
1943 AUSTIN LIGHT UTILITY M6448770
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- Sergeant Major of the Gee
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Re: bellcrank mod
Very well said..and when you think about it, bearings supporting the steering king pins exist in a very similar circumstance. Such matters require additional care and maintenance. Thus, after acquiring an old jeep, these are good places to start looking for trouble.bazza46 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:21 pmThe needle roller bearing in the bellcrank seems to have been a bit of 'over think' on the part of the designers. Such bearings are really good in high speed , fully rotational assemblies, such as small gears, two stroke crankshafts and big and little ends of conrods on small,, high revving two stroke engines. They work best where there is full rotation, as the rollers roll continuously, bathed in a mist of oil.
But on the jeep bellcrank, they stay mostly in the same position all their lives, with little directional turning, and when they do turn, it's very slow. As a result, from the pounding of the steering mechanism in from road use, the individual rollers pound, or brinell, a little groove on the spot where they are continually resting, and in relatively short time, give the shaft a fluted appearing surface. From that moment on, they don't even roll a bit on turning, but slip around in their individual grooves, till the shaft is rattly and loose. Tightening up the nut on top does not help for long, as the grooves are there permanently.
Cheers,
TJ
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Re: bellcrank mod
Hi TJ.
What you said about the kingpin bearings is quite right. In fact, manufacturers like Land Rover found them so unsatisfactory (because all the load rests on the bottom bearing only, for one thing), that on the early series they replaced the top one with a brass cone pressed tightly with a coil spring.
Even that wasn't so good, so aftermarket manufacturers like Quinton Hazell made a kit which had a parallel sided swivel pin riding in a cup lined with fibre. It worked well with the total area of the pin resting on the fibre taking the bashing stress. And of course, the new four wheel drives have external ball joints, which really are a plain smooth ball resting in matching bushing.
What you said about the kingpin bearings is quite right. In fact, manufacturers like Land Rover found them so unsatisfactory (because all the load rests on the bottom bearing only, for one thing), that on the early series they replaced the top one with a brass cone pressed tightly with a coil spring.
Even that wasn't so good, so aftermarket manufacturers like Quinton Hazell made a kit which had a parallel sided swivel pin riding in a cup lined with fibre. It worked well with the total area of the pin resting on the fibre taking the bashing stress. And of course, the new four wheel drives have external ball joints, which really are a plain smooth ball resting in matching bushing.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"..Bertrand Russell
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Re: bellcrank mod
Hopefully a G503 member will have one of the brass bellcrank bushings I described.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
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LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
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Re: bellcrank mod
Here is a photo of an Amphibious Jeep bell crank I recently fitted a brass bushing to.
GPW 135997
M29C 7333
M29C 4338
M29C 7333
M29C 4338
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Re: bellcrank mod
Here are the components of the G-503 Bell Crank and the Bronze Bushing I discussed. I had to do some digging as I knew I saved an example of the bronze bushing, that was installed as a substitute for the two A-857 Torrington Needle Bearings. I do not Have the Part No. for the bronze bushing, but some of the suppliers may have a source old enough to remember it. There are two style TAPERED PINS, WO-856 (short), and 645421 (Long Tapered with threads) that are illustrated for the shaft. Will discuss later
Sorry for the small photos, haven't a clue what I did.
Sorry for the small photos, haven't a clue what I did.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
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Re: bellcrank mod
NOS Bellcrank Bushing from 40's-60's Jeep stock. These were availible from post war suppliers in the good old days. I have removed the bushing type from bellcranks that had no civilian use.
The bushings may have been discussed in WWII Army Motors Publication.
The bushings may have been discussed in WWII Army Motors Publication.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
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Re: bellcrank mod
I made a post in the tech section, but here is a print I made
45 MB - W Simsbury CT
Built to drive!
Built to drive!
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Re: bellcrank mod
Technical Bulletin TB 9-803-FE6, "Reinforcement of Drag Link Bell Crank" Dated 23Jan45 is about reinforcing the bell crank with a 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" x 2-3/8" triangular wedge of 1/4" scrap steel arc welded into the vee of the bell crank. BUT it also includes info on changing the roller bearings to a "Hard Bronze Shackle Bushing" that may be modified and used to replace excessively worn needle bearings. It does not give a part number for the bushing. It says to press the bushing into the arm, drill a hole in the bushing for lubricant and ream to fit the bell crank pin with 0.002" clearance.
Info from page 482 of Lloyd White's "Ford Builds the 1/4-Ton 4x4 Truck", Part 2
Info from page 482 of Lloyd White's "Ford Builds the 1/4-Ton 4x4 Truck", Part 2
43 Ford GPW 92098
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- Chuck Lutz
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Re: bellcrank mod
GPW-3131 Bellcrank is listed up to the March 1943 TM 10-1348.
At some point, Ford went to the GPW-3131-B bellcrank which has some additional steel forming a "web" to strengthen it.
At some point, Ford went to the GPW-3131-B bellcrank which has some additional steel forming a "web" to strengthen it.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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