Forum sections removed

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Ken Creason
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Re: Forum sections removed

Post by Ken Creason » Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:22 am

I've seen a stretch of road closed temporarily because several drivers had rolled their cars on a tight turn that leaned to the outside. I've seen a theater closed because something was driving viewers out of the room. I've seen products pulled from shelves because it made some people sick. I've been to game where the umpire cleared the stands because spectator behavior was disrupting game play, and I think amputations happen all the time if a problem threatens the health of the body, so I wouldn't be surprised if one of the 95+ forums were disabled if a problem were affecting user participation of the site as a whole, until a more efficacious solution were found.
_Ken
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Jeff B
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Re: Forum sections removed

Post by Jeff B » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:19 pm

Don't believe anyone is being "punished" here. The forum was renamed to be more appropriate to the content desired and make it easier to locate. As far as removing unsavory political / cultural comments, those are not fitting to our hobby here, and anyone can carry on those discussions and share their ideas (to which they are entitled) on sites like FaceBook, where that sort of thing seems to thrive.

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Re: Forum sections removed

Post by Old Dodge Guy » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:29 pm

Ken, I've deliberately been avoiding this topic because I want to stay on G503 and not get my hand whacked, but finally I feel the need to respond. Sorry.

Wouldn't it had been better to slap down the "offenders" than kill the entire section? Throwing the baby out with the bath water? I can understand finally getting tired of the constant bickering, but SSOOOOO much good info got disappeared with the outright slaughter of the rest of the section.

I really miss the Legislative section, as it mostly was keeping us up to date with legislative information that was not to be seen any other place. ONE and ONE only thread seemed to have doomed the rest of the good information to oblivion. Some other threads kinda got close to the edge and were slapped and that was the end of it. But the one thread killed off the entire section. Not fair..........

In the General forum, the same old complainers over and over got everyone fed up and eventually killed the individual thread, which (while bad for the moderators) at least kept most of the pertinent information alive. Mostly the good, but some of the bad. While I understand that, I still miss it.
Now saying all the above, I have deliberately stayed away from nearly ALL the other sections, occasionally checking the 1/4 trailer section, the tracked section and the For sale section and just keeping to the SJC area exclusively, where I feel somewhat safe expressing an idea. Just checking in areas strictly in an area of direct interest and not checking on the rest of the hobby.

In other words, keeping a low profile and keeping my head down. I like the G and do not wish to be banished because I have an opinion.
So, in closing, I hope you can reconsider some of your opinions, not be too offended in my thoughts.
Still crazy after all these years.
The OD bug bit me in 1970......and I have never been the same

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John Neuenburg
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Re: Forum sections removed

Post by John Neuenburg » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:27 pm

There are several issues here. Regarding what some people think is censorship, this is dangerous because it works against freedom. BUT the owner of this Board can do whatever he wants and we will either live with it or go away. That is freedom.

If his objective was to steer speech that has no relation to MVs away from the G, eliminating the title General Discussion was a good start. On the other hand if there is a place where people can say what they want, does it hurt the person who doesn't go there? And if people are attracted to that type of content they shouldn't turn around and complain about it. The answer to my question is not to send them to Facebook or Twitter because censorship is What They Do these days, against Conservatives. I guess there are other message boards that are neutral.

Having a Legislative forum makes total sense if the content relates to laws against or favoring MVs. Very important! Legislators often need to be lobbied to encourage them to do us no harm and so we need to know what negative things are about to happen so we can get on the phone and email. For example, what if you woke up tomorrow and learned our MVs are required to have two rear service lamps? Would have been nice to know the government was considering that! (that's only an example). The challenge with a Legislative forum is the conversations can easily turn political. But if this is directly related to a MV issue is that bad on a MV message board?

The other subject is about all the good content in General Discussion and it was smart to turn it into a Restoration forum. Putting these threads in Technical could work but make them stickies so they don't get lost. But that would mean a lot of stickies. There is overlap between what should be in Technical versus Restoration and hopefully the Moderators will recognize when a post ought to be moved for the benefit of everybody.
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Steve Webb
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Re: Forum sections removed

Post by Steve Webb » Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:14 pm

There was a separate forum for politics and it clearly stated don't go there and don't complain yet still it did not stop the whiners who apparently have a problem with comprehension. Yes years ago everything was a a jumble with the scuttlebutt forum so the politics was broken off. It is Ron's site so he can do what he wants. Not going to a forum is very easy. Many on the Gee I don't look at and I decided to not post on one when the politics forum was closed. The topic on Gettysburg was not appropriate for the forum but it did go on a bit. The troll who who came at the end was easy to spot and I have a pretty good idea who was involved in that but so what it is history. SJC is fine for politics and other things and just shooting the bull with friends. Jeep Fabrikin (sp) is a private site and good for them. Although they did have it unlocked for a bit a while back and you could see what was going on.
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Re: Forum sections removed

Post by OldGPW » Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:44 pm

Old Dodge Guy wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:29 pm
Ken, I've deliberately been avoiding this topic because I want to stay on G503 and not get my hand whacked, but finally I feel the need to respond. Sorry.

Wouldn't it had been better to slap down the "offenders" than kill the entire section? Throwing the baby out with the bath water? I can understand finally getting tired of the constant bickering, but SSOOOOO much good info got disappeared with the outright slaughter of the rest of the section.

I really miss the Legislative section, as it mostly was keeping us up to date with legislative information that was not to be seen any other place. ONE and ONE only thread seemed to have doomed the rest of the good information to oblivion. Some other threads kinda got close to the edge and were slapped and that was the end of it. But the one thread killed off the entire section. Not fair..........

In the General forum, the same old complainers over and over got everyone fed up and eventually killed the individual thread, which (while bad for the moderators) at least kept most of the pertinent information alive. Mostly the good, but some of the bad. While I understand that, I still miss it.
Now saying all the above, I have deliberately stayed away from nearly ALL the other sections, occasionally checking the 1/4 trailer section, the tracked section and the For sale section and just keeping to the SJC area exclusively, where I feel somewhat safe expressing an idea. Just checking in areas strictly in an area of direct interest and not checking on the rest of the hobby.

In other words, keeping a low profile and keeping my head down. I like the G and do not wish to be banished because I have an opinion.
So, in closing, I hope you can reconsider some of your opinions, not be too offended in my thoughts.
Hello OldDodgeGuy,

You make valid points, and while I am not pretending to speak for anyone, I don't think you have to fear being banished for expressing the opinions that you have. On the contrary, I think your post is a good reciprocal feedback that helps balance things.

The problem with sections like that is that they tend to get out of hand very quickly. What can start out as one or two members misbehavin' can in turn, suck in more members whose toes got stepped on and before you know it the mods have a 5 alarm to put out and still have people fanning the flames. So I don't blame anyone for the loss of the now removed G503 sections, except the people who abused them by ignoring the advice of friends and mods to stop engaging in behavior that caused the mods headaches. The G503's mods are all volunteers who live around the world, so you can imagine how much of a pain that could be when someone in one time zone would wake up and find that overnight, the forum was off the rails thanks to one thread. Not fair, but if it had been fair the members who kept ignoring the mods would have abided by the advice given to them; instead they forced the mods and site admins to take actions in their own hands to put a stop to the misbehavin'.

Anyway fair points, and thank you for a measured reply. I have a background in moderating on other web forums, and can say that it is a rare thing when a member can disagree in a pleasant and constructive way (which fortunately most of the Gee members are good at). I can't imagine anyone being banned for that! Far from it, most people welcome constructive and polite comments on things. There is of course a point when discussion stops being constructive, with everything there is to say having been said, and I'd assume once that point is reached, this thread too will be closed simply because there is nothing more to add.
Old GPW.

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Re: Forum sections removed

Post by OldGPW » Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:45 pm

Steve Webb wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:14 pm
There was a separate forum for politics and it clearly stated don't go there and don't complain yet still it did not stop the whiners who apparently have a problem with comprehension. Yes years ago everything was a a jumble with the scuttlebutt forum so the politics was broken off. It is Ron's site so he can do what he wants. Not going to a forum is very easy. Many on the Gee I don't look at and I decided to not post on one when the politics forum was closed. The topic on Gettysburg was not appropriate for the forum but it did go on a bit. The troll who who came at the end was easy to spot and I have a pretty good idea who was involved in that but so what it is history. SJC is fine for politics and other things and just shooting the bull with friends. Jeep Fabrikin (sp) is a private site and good for them. Although they did have it unlocked for a bit a while back and you could see what was going on.
So true about people either not understanding or choosing not to follow the well stated rules.

In the end it's the site owner makes the rules and pays the bills, the forum is about G503s, but our benefactor has been kind to expand the forum to include many other vehicles which substantially adds to the server and maintenance costs. So I don't really see (but I respect the opinion of those who feel that way) how we on the Gee were punished by removing two sections (which I think good reasons for removal were weighed against keeping it. I don't think the decision to remove either were made lightly but instead as a last resort). I mean if anyone wanted to punish us they could simply delete every forum here but the G503 technical section, or just shut the whole site down and take all the knowledge, experience, expertise, and importantly, friendships away; but they didn't! :D That's good news my friends 8)

The Gee has been around for a long time and will continue to be around for a long time. If my experience in forums is worth anything, sites always change a little, but never in a bad way. Sometimes popular sections are removed or tweaked, sometimes they go away and come back with changes, sometimes they never come back, but in the end the best way forward is to work together and that starts by respecting the mods when they patiently and politely ask for their cooperation; it is their turf and they have the badges, so why make their time on the forum a pain? Granted I know that most of the members have no beef with anyone and just want to talk about their vehicles, so hopefully all the problems are in the past where they belong.
Old GPW.

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Re: Forum sections removed

Post by John Neuenburg » Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:05 pm

This message board is very good for the military vehicle hobby. The wide variety of vehicle forums makes it much more visited than if it was just WWII jeeps. So it cross-promotes vehicles and accessories a reader might not be too interested in now but being exposed to those threads could lead to an interest in them. And it's "one stop shopping" for those who own more than one type of vehicle. The Events and Club forums promote activities where we can use these vehicles and see meet new friends. It's more logically laid out than other message boards I have seen.

Great job Ron and all the Moderators!
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Gary C V
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Re: Forum sections removed

Post by Gary C V » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:44 pm

Hi ,
Ever time I go too the U.S. of A, I always visit Ron, Correy, Scott and Scott, great people great service great site.

Cheers
Gary

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Re: Forum sections removed

Post by DavidA » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:02 pm

All I can think of was the debacle with the Pinzgauers (sp) in Wisconsin some years back. The Legislative Forum didn't exist back then I don't think. What I do think is that there are forces out there that would like to see our vehicles relegated to museums and wrecking yards and that private ownership be curtailed. Having access to up-to-date challenges to our cause and hobby in a well organized forum would certainly be in the best interests of all who are members here.

I would think that even higher on the "fix-it" mode would be to require members to identify where they are located in their profiles. Not their specific addresses but the State and/or Country so that when they are selling an item or purchasing such that at least there is an idea of who on earth we are dealing with. I have pursued deals that were just ridiculous when it came to shipping once I found out where the sellers lived. REQUIRE LOCATION IN THE PROFILE!!!! ....Please ?... :P
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Re: Forum sections removed

Post by John Neuenburg » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:02 pm

DavidA wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:02 pm
All I can think of was the debacle with the Pinzgauers (sp) in Wisconsin some years back. The Legislative Forum didn't exist back then I don't think. What I do think is that there are forces out there that would like to see our vehicles relegated to museums and wrecking yards and that private ownership be curtailed. Having access to up-to-date challenges to our cause and hobby in a well organized forum would certainly be in the best interests of all who are members here.
The Fun Police are knocking at the door right now. No I won't go political here! The point is we need a place to communicate about these things. Can't rely on the MVPA lobbying the feds and states.
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