Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

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dgrev
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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by dgrev » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:46 pm

Darryl

The other thing about adding matt/drab is that they use a very large quantity of matting agent. Can easily be from 50% up. So the solid to binder ratio can be way off if they are using a gloss formulated paint and then adding the matting agent rather than paint batched from the start as drab.

Just be a bit wary of what you end up with, chalky paint is not desirable.

I always look for a very wet application. This does risk runs, but better that than paint that comes off on your hand.

You have probably heard the bush painter's quick version of drab is to tip in a can of talcum powder. I gave it a try once out of curiosity, just a small test sample on a 1' square piece of sheet steel. It doesn't take much to cause all sorts of problems, blocked spray gun etc.

Regards
Doug


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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by DDTrustee » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:15 am

My hull serial number was on the rear panel on either side of the radiator grill in same size numbers as the one on the lower left front hull. Same size 3/4" tall easily seen with sanding on the OD and primer. One of the stateside experts on M8s noted that the number sometimes appears there but not always.
Would greatly appreciated the hi-def photos of the front scope mount.....with dimensions. I think I can make that on the lathe and add the rest with a TIG welder.
My mantlette is mismatched to the gun mount so I have to remove the mantlette and weld up the scope hole and bore a new one. Thought I had a trade arranged but can't bring myself to trade the original steel one for an aluminum repro...sooo I'll modify it myself...I'm figure it's impossible to find the right gun mount with the different scope mount dimension.

When I saw your last pictures (before I read your accompanying text) I thought you were showing some "Heat Treatment" process! LOL :mrgreen:

Your resurrection from the dead is amazing...shows that virtually nothing is beyond a 100 point restoration.
reenacting and WWII history

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by twinflyer17 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:23 am

Darryl,

Just stumbled upon this thread and I'm highly impressed with your work! Excellent job so far and keep it up. I'm excited to continue to watch your progress. Best of luck!
Sean

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by Big D » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:31 pm

Hi Doug,

Thanks for that. I will talk to the paint guys again today and get some more information. The paint supplier used a different paint type which required a lower ratio of hardener than what we originally experimented with so I will need to find out about that.

I painted my scout car in more of a semi-gloss paint. It looks great, but I was really after a flat finish with the M8, albeit with the disadvantages that might carry. We’ll see how we go.


Hi Dan,

Thanks for the reply. I will dig that scope mount piece out and send some photos and dimensions. It is buried here somewhere under the pile of parts and I just need to find it.

There are some numbers on my hull at the rear where the radiator would be but how do these correlate to the ordnance serial number at the front? In all my reading, I hadn’t seen anything that showed the relationship between these numbers. Bugger on the mantlet. Has your 37mm ready rack etc arrived?

I hate to think what would have happened if the blaster’s workshop had gone up in smoke. I guess it would depend on the intensity of the fire but I imagine some more fabrication at least would have been required!


Hi Sean,

Thanks for your kind words. It has involved a lot of learning and lots of requests for assistance, but has been great fun.
Darryl Lennane
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1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by dgrev » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:39 pm

Dan

Back in the 1990s, the Aussie MV dealer James Swan borrowed my gun mantlet in order to get some steel duplicates cast from it. These were to go on a number of vehicles that had had the mantlet removed as part of the demil process. The duplicates have my casting number on them so are easily identified. I remember him commenting at the time about the misalignment of the telescope hole when they were installed and he wanted to know what the problem was. 'Easy, there is an early and a late version telescope mount, the late version was to try and make the ergonomics for the gunner a bit better'. (Not that they succeeded.) This is why in M5 Stuarts, the periscope hole is higher up the mantlet.

Regards
Doug
DaninNM wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:15 am
My hull serial number was on the rear panel on either side of the radiator grill in same size numbers as the one on the lower left front hull. Same size 3/4" tall easily seen with sanding on the OD and primer. One of the stateside experts on M8s noted that the number sometimes appears there but not always.
Would greatly appreciated the hi-def photos of the front scope mount.....with dimensions. I think I can make that on the lathe and add the rest with a TIG welder.
My mantlette is mismatched to the gun mount so I have to remove the mantlette and weld up the scope hole and bore a new one. Thought I had a trade arranged but can't bring myself to trade the original steel one for an aluminum repro...sooo I'll modify it myself...I'm figure it's impossible to find the right gun mount with the different scope mount dimension.

When I saw your last pictures (before I read your accompanying text) I thought you were showing some "Heat Treatment" process! LOL :mrgreen:

Your resurrection from the dead is amazing...shows that virtually nothing is beyond a 100 point restoration.

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by DDTrustee » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:35 pm

On my M8 the left front 3/4" tall number is 6988 and that number in the same tall font appears on both sides of the armor on either side of the radiator grill....horizontally stamped. same 6988. Never did find the hull number u higher between the two hatches on the front....nothing there though I was told it was almost always stamped there as well.
reenacting and WWII history

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by dgrev » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:55 pm

Dan

I have a friend whose Greyhound is devoid of any stamped numbers AT ALL. We have looked and cannot locate any, that includes the drawing numbers which on mine are on every plate.

I do wonder if it is a twin cities build and they did weird stuff.

Regards
Doug

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by DDTrustee » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:53 pm

I found the 3/4" tall serial / hull number under the tail lights on both sides of the rear armor.....about 8" below stamped horizontally....on the triangle shaped piece the tail light mounts on.
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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by Big D » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:36 pm

Hi all,

While I am waiting for the hull to come back, I've been planning the fabrication and installation of the various hydraulic and fuel lines. I have no old lines to work from so will be working from a clean slate and will have to fabricate each line.

According to the manual, I need 142” of ½” line, 260” of 3/8” line, 923” of ¼” line, and 275” of 5/16” line!

I have a range of pictures and diagrams of the hydraulic and fuel line layout and am curious about the different line sizes used. I see there is ½” for the clutch lines; 3/8” for the accelerator lines; 5/16” for some of the brake lines, 1/4” for the other brake lines. Was the variation in line sizes simply to allow for greater hydraulic fluid for the different applications?

I have read a number of suggestions about fitting in extender lines so that I can bleed from various places. I’ve attached a couple of pictures of one setup. I can’t remember where I got this, so hopefully the owner doesn’t mind me using the photos. This setup seems like a good option to me.

Is there anywhere else I need to consider extender lines?

I am also going to progress the 37mm gun in readiness for getting the turret back. I’m not sure whether it is clear from the photos but the barrel I have is a little bent. I’m guessing that it must have had a fairly hefty weight on it at some point to put a curve in the barrel. It is not going to be a live firing gun but I would like it straight ‘to the eye’ and I would like to have it so that it can fire blanks.

Straightening it is beyond my expertise and the tools I have so I have the Action Engineering guys working on this. We need to get the old sleigh off the tube first and then we can straighten the tube. Hopefully some pressure from a large press and perhaps a bit of heat will do the job.

The breech end of the tube has been plugged which we should be able to clear quite easily. I have the correct sleigh and also have a NOS breech block coming for it.

I also need to get the recoil system off the mantlet so that I can get that stripped and functioning again. The screws holding it to the mantlet are pretty rough but hopefully we can get a rattle gun on them. Otherwise I might have to resort to welding a couple of studs onto them so that I can get a spanner on them to shift them.

I have some repro data plates for the gun side plate. Can anyone advise the size font for the stamp for these plates?
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Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by SURPDLR » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:21 am

I have run extension lines on the clutch and brake lines on an M20.... That Block looks like a really good idea. I wonder where it was sourced from????

When you are making your lines, the "New" at least here in the USA Cupronickel brake line is GREAT to work with, and can be sourced 1/2" diameter on down.

Here is a link for the 1/2" https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Nickel-Fu ... B01FOKISGI
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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by Peterdodge6volt » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:06 pm

Hi Darryl
Looking at your last picture of the M8 cannon gun. Is that shell welded on the cannon.

Cheers Peter

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by Big D » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:50 am

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, that block looks real handy. I have had a bit of a look around but haven’t seen anything commercially available yet. Maybe it was custom built?

Thanks for the link to the line. Is there an advantage to using copper line rather than steel? I see the copper is a lot more expensive.


Hi Peter,

I see what you mean about the plug in the breech. It does look a bit like a shell! Let’s hope not!
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Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by sawbuck » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:33 pm

The link provided is not copper, it is an alloy of copper and nickel. Regular copper line is not rated for the required pressure of a brake system.
The advantage of brake lines made from nickel/copper alloy is corrosion resistance and ease of bending and flaring.

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by nirvana » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:41 am

Yea, don't use copper for brake lines. They will pop.

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by SURPDLR » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:25 pm

sawbuck wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:33 pm
The link provided is not copper, it is an alloy of copper and nickel. Regular copper line is not rated for the required pressure of a brake system.
The advantage of brake lines made from nickel/copper alloy is corrosion resistance and ease of bending and flaring.
To add to the above info, this material is VERY common in Europe, and JUST making it's way here to the USA!
The material as used in brake lines was pioneered by Volvo in the late 1960's to combat brake line corrosion!
The smaller diameters you can tie a knot in without kinking!!! The stuff is GREAT to work with after years of working with STEEL "Bundy Flex and such.... You do have to pay attention to the larger diameters when bending as they will still try to kink. BUT it is still better to work with than steel line!
Last edited by SURPDLR on Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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