Need Guidance in solving 200A dual voltage alternator issue.

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RockHillWill
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Re: Need Guidance in solving 200A dual voltage alternator issue.

Post by RockHillWill » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:41 am

I have had to come to some sort of a resolution to this issue to get the truck out of the shop for a metal shaping event that I hosting.

I have not been able to find a suitable wiring harness schematic to do a good job on trouble shooting this issue. Using Tm-----20-3, I reviewed each of the schematics shown from FO-1 to F0-6 and was unable to locate a schematic that showed the combination of a 200A dual voltage alternator, the 14v tap, the large battery cable that attaches to the side of the alternator with the red boot and a battery box that did NOT have a bus bar.

Wire from IGN tap to cannon plug at EESS ohmed out good. Switching EESS boxes made no difference. Conversation with Niehoff tech buy made me ignore any work on the 14v tap and to check for voltage to the IGN tap and I had none. Did further review and decided to run a jumper wire from the large battery cable with red boot directly to the IGN tap. This bypasses the wiring to the glow plug circuit and provides the 'exciting'? current to the regulator. To make sure that I don't create an unknown problem, when I stop driving, in addition to turning off the run switch, I turn off the battery disconnect switch as well. As a long time Model A Ford driver, I am in the habit of using the battery disconnect switch on a regular basis. The first 60-70 miles have been done with no issue to date.

Can anyone help in providing an electrical schematic that shows the above combination of components? As always, thanks for your efforts!


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Re: Need Guidance in solving 200A dual voltage alternator issue.

Post by Action » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:06 am

Is this the same alternator that you had a ground hooked to the hot connection? Did you tell the Neihoff guy that you had it hooked up like that?

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Re: Need Guidance in solving 200A dual voltage alternator issue.

Post by RockHillWill » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:23 pm

Yes, and he had nothing to say about that. Throughout the entire time and all the things that I tried, their has been NO changes in how the truck has either started or driven. I put maybe 70-80 miles on it before I added the ground harness and maybe 30-40 miles on after that addition. I then removed it = NO change in behavior or alternator output. Switched EESS's and NO change in behavior or alternator output. Once I provided 24v to the IGN tap all has been well since! My assumption is that whatever was preventing 24v from being at the IGN tap also kept me from damaging the system by the incorrect wire installation.

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Re: Need Guidance in solving 200A dual voltage alternator issue.

Post by 86humv » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:44 pm

14 v tap needs to be grounded on the regulator in your pic. { for V belt 3L80 trans trucks }
If the regulator has a date 2012 and above ...14 v tap can be left un-hooked
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Re: Need Guidance in solving 200A dual voltage alternator issue.

Post by RockHillWill » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:52 am

Hey, guys, as I have explained previously, I am less than a 'newby' with electronics, etc. so what I post is generally my current opinion based on the most recent info that I have garnered. The gentleman at Niehoff was rather adamant that grounding the 14v tap merely disabled the 12v capability of the system, and had nothing to do with the ability of the alternator to charge or dependent on the type of belts. My current configuration confirms that line of thinking, and the problem that I experienced was exactly the same whether I used a 2009 dated regulator or the current 2016 dated regulator. I am more than deeply puzzled why the method of spinning the alternator (three belts vs the single wide belt) has anything to do at all with the ability of the alternator to function. Would some one be kind enough to explain that one to me?

Can anyone offer a direction to an electrical schematic that is in line with my current set of components? See above post regarding FO-1 thru FO-6.

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Re: Need Guidance in solving 200A dual voltage alternator issue.

Post by Ted Gates » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:59 am

V belt or Serpentine does not matter, it is an identifier as to what setup (engine, transmission, harness, belts, generator) it is for the military. Initially the 6.2l had a 60 amp generator (standard M series) and the engine harness connected easily to it. Then came the 6.2l with Neihoff 100 amp alternator with belt pulley. When serpentine belts started (multiple versions), it change a lot on the setup: engine (typically a detuned 6.5l or non detuned), wire harness change if 4 speed installed (hense the 12v tap), water pump, serpentine pulleys and idler, and Neihoff 100 amp with serpentine pulley as well as the 200 amp. Then when the 6.5t engine started, the 200 amp and 400 amp was added as wall the stud strip inside battery box and aux 12vdc fuses behind commanders seat.

I have not seen a diagram from the TM's for a 200 amp on a 6.2l. It is possible but the military might not of ever done this. I have a book / pdf on the 6.2l with 100 amp and it shows how it is wired as seen below"
For the 100 amp:
Wire 2A goes to AC (yellow)
Wire 568/568A goes to Ignition (red)
24v goes to battery #2 positive
12v goes to batery #1 positive

If you pm me I will send the tm I have.

Below is a 200 amp alternator. Notice it does not have a 12vdc lead shown.
Attachments
200 amp wiring.png
200 amp wiring.png (116.52 KiB) Viewed 2063 times
Last edited by Ted Gates on Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Need Guidance in solving 200A dual voltage alternator issue.

Post by Retired War Horses » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:33 am

RockHillWill wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:23 pm
Maybe it did not 'jump' to the middle of the green, but certainly didn't take 30 seconds. Just looking the clock, I would say about 10-15 seconds. I was also 'jumped' directly to the IGN, maybe that has something to do with it. I was so happy to see the movement, I only kept it running for about a minute. The Niehoff troubleshooting #TG0017B says that a 'soft start' may take up to 10 seconds at full load.

Here is a link to that information for the alternator N1225-1 w/ regulator N3135: http://www.ceniehoff.com/Documents/Ctrl ... 200562.pdf

Your going to fry something if you already have not based on what I see on your wiring in the pic...because it was done wrong it’s possible your engine harness is toast now. Bypassing everything and jumping wires on 24v systems is a recipe for disaster.
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Re: Need Guidance in solving 200A dual voltage alternator issue.

Post by Retired War Horses » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:34 am

Let me add that I’ve had customers do similar things and when I go to fix it, the regulator and EESS box is fried.
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Re: Need Guidance in solving 200A dual voltage alternator issue.

Post by Action » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:57 am

Sell it an buy something else.

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Re: Need Guidance in solving 200A dual voltage alternator issue.

Post by 86humv » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:21 am

I have a new 998 body harness available.
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Re: Need Guidance in solving 200A dual voltage alternator issue.

Post by Retired War Horses » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:59 am

Engine harness
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Re: Need Guidance in solving 200A dual voltage alternator issue.

Post by 86humv » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:53 pm

Pic from one today.
Never mind the wire with yellow tape...its for a manual glo system power.
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Re: Need Guidance in solving 200A dual voltage alternator issue.

Post by RockHillWill » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:53 pm

Many thanks for the input guys. None of the above pictures/drawing indicates my current situation. I will try to take a picture and post it soon.

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Re: Need Guidance in solving 200A dual voltage alternator issue.

Post by Retired War Horses » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:01 pm

What does that mean?
There is only one way to wire it...yours does not appear to be correct
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Re: Need Guidance in solving 200A dual voltage alternator issue.

Post by RockHillWill » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:00 am

That's enough for me. See you guys later!


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