Titling HMMWV, Other Ex-Military Vehicles in California

Military Vehicle Collectors of California Club Forum.

Moderator: John Neuenburg

Post Reply
User avatar
Retired War Horses
G-Brigadier General
G-Brigadier General
Posts: 2243
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:45 am
Location: Northern Calif
Contact:

Titling HMMWV, Other Ex-Military Vehicles in California

Post by Retired War Horses » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:12 am

NOTE FROM MODERATOR - THIS POST AND OTHERS HAVE BEEN MOVED FROM ANOTHER THREAD BECAUSE THEY DESERVE THEIR OWN TITLE. THANKS STEVE, FOR BRINGING UP THIS IMPORTANT SUBJECT. I RECOMMEND YOU PUT A POST ON THE LEGISLATIVE FORUM WITH A LINK TO THIS ONE, TO CATCH INTERESTED PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT THINK TO GO TO THE MVCC FORUM.

Let's talk about something that is going to affect our club and the MVPA - the Titling of former military vehicles in Calif as of 1 Oct 17. The bean counters in Sacramento have decided ANY FMV that does not meet the following criteria is not to be titled for road use, but in fact "Off highway only"
1. FMVSS compliance
2.Calif CARB compliance on motor
3.pass 17 digit vin check
There is a new Vin verification form as of 1 October, this form specifically calls out SF97's for supporting documentation and States that vehicle will only be allowed to be issued an OHV title.
I've Personally decided to go it alone, I've spent hrs on the phone calling like minded individuals and trying to garner support to get policy change at DMV, I've reached out to local VFW commanders as well as state senators to try and get this on the 2018 agenda. Here is the rub....I get nothing but enthusiasm and support from VFW and American Legion posts, but literally NOTHING from the very groups this affects....I'm frankly disgusted.
For those who don't know me, I own and operate Retired War Horses restoration here in the SF Bay Area, we are the only dedicated 100% HMMWV shop in the Nation specializing in the frame up, frame off building of M11XX HMMWV's, we only perform OEM level work. We also buy and sell hmmwv's from the auctions, as you can imagine this does affect that aspect of our business, but this really affects those 1 or 2 folks a week I turn away trying to buy a truck and get into the hobby and cannot due to this new policy.

The MVPA states they are working on helping members with titling issues in 2 states...not sure what states they are referring too, I've been on the MVPA FB page and see nothing and have posted about titling in Calif with frankly no response.
Retired War Horses Restoration

Call us for all your HMMWV parts, service, upgrades and conversion needs.

User avatar
zepher11
G-Major General
G-Major General
Posts: 2870
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:37 pm
Location: The Real Northern CalifornIA

Re: MVPA Affiliate

Post by zepher11 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:26 am

That's a bummer about the new California DMV rule. I must have slipped through the crack as mid-October I registered a 1941 Dodge WC26 that I purchased in Washington state. It had the wrong VIN and year on the Washington state title, but I was able to get the DMV to change it after I brought the vehicle in for them to verify.

All of my HMV have regular plates not historical plates so I can drive them whenever. Maybe that makes a difference? Something to look into as I hadn't heard about this new regulation.
Zeph

'42 Script GPW Restoration Thread: CLICK HERE!

'41 Dodge WC16 Restoration Thread: CLICK HERE!

User avatar
John Neuenburg
Gee Old Hand
Posts: 2792
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 1:18 pm
Location: U.S. Left Coast

Titling HMMWV, Other Ex-Military Vehicles in California CONT'D

Post by John Neuenburg » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:25 pm

Steve, what do they say about the old vehicles and does it make a difference having Historic plates?
Military Vehicle Collectors of California

Image
44 Ford M20
42 GPW, Special Air Service replica
41 Indian 640
BSA folding bikes

User avatar
Retired War Horses
G-Brigadier General
G-Brigadier General
Posts: 2243
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:45 am
Location: Northern Calif
Contact:

Re: MVPA Affiliate

Post by Retired War Horses » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:35 pm

This is more for vehicles coming out of the auctions with SF97's...current military vehicles and not older ww2-Vietnam years.
Someone at DMV has a hard on for some reason,.,,.enough to change the vin verification form to add a box in the emissions section for supporting documentation that reads "SF97-1 = off highway use only"
Another is who can actually perform a vin verification, the form says any CHP, DMV, police officer or service, but the new VFR internal communication says "only a DMV employee" can do vin verifications....so they took my CHP vin verification and made me drive the vehicle down and have them literally write it the same way....only to have the window clerk state to me "looks like all the DMV employee did was copy what CHP wrote, I replied "no ma'am, I never showed him the CHP vin verification"
She was clearly annoyed.
This truck had a calif emissions label on the valve cover, all the serial number where they were supposed to be...
Retired War Horses Restoration

Call us for all your HMMWV parts, service, upgrades and conversion needs.

User avatar
John Neuenburg
Gee Old Hand
Posts: 2792
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 1:18 pm
Location: U.S. Left Coast

Re: MVPA Affiliate

Post by John Neuenburg » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:46 pm

This is certainly a good project for MVPA assuming they are not already on it. CA is a BIG market and younger people are attracted to newer vehicles. In this state vehicles that can go 60 mph are desired.

With your business being right in the middle of MVCC territory and you bringing trucks to events, it means there should be considerable growth in HMMWV numbers around here. These owners will hopefully get into our club and the organized hobby.
Military Vehicle Collectors of California

Image
44 Ford M20
42 GPW, Special Air Service replica
41 Indian 640
BSA folding bikes


Ed Roberts
G-Sergeant
G-Sergeant
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:59 am

Re: MVPA Affiliate/CA DMV

Post by Ed Roberts » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:27 pm

Steve, I agree this is of much importance to MVCC members currently and in the future. If you know, I think it would be helpful to for us to try to assist: DMV code sections they reference; Origins of changed language or requirements different from any previous. Someone or some organization requested/proposed/sponsored this. Was this an administrative or legislative change? There is a difference, and that means "who is drinking at the trough?" In other words, who benefits from this? As we all know, all kinds of can change under the guise of environmental protection and this scent is present. It would be useful to know who we are disagreeing with and why somebody or group thought it was necessary. It's also possible that this crap was sandwiched among other crap that gets instituted because our bureaucrats don't read it in the first place. "We have to pass it in order to know what's in it" I'll help where I can.
V/r Eddie Roberts. (Something old, something new, I am stuck with O.D like Elmer on glue)

User avatar
softskin_driver
G-Lieutenant Colonel
G-Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 1066
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 1:49 am
Contact:

Re: MVPA Affiliate

Post by softskin_driver » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:47 am

Hello Everyone there have been several individuals recently contact me with vehicles that DMV refused over the road registration to. One a gentleman who moved into California with a Mutt registered in another state that was having issues and one of the guys that puts the burning man show on bought a Stewart and Stevenson that DMV and CHP walked around but would not give him an ok for over the road use.
I sent these Gentleman on to the MVPA both were MVPA members and the MVCC has no expertise in these matters.
This is actually a multi state issue and as I have been told many states have banded together and are sharing info on DOT and NTSB rules and regulations.
Most of the pre 1966 vehicles were built before these agencies were created in 1966 and 1967 by President Johnson.
The MVPA is working with a lobbyist group dealing directly I have been told with the Attorney Generals office and that is who should be hearing about these issues.

If you are interested in what is going on with the MVPA officers working on the vehicle registration issues you should join the MVPA and send emails to the MVPA board and Kevin Lockwood.
Dave Ball
MVCC, President, Editor
MVPA 9377
http://www.mvccnews.net
1942 USA Dodge WC-24
1942 USN Dodge WC-56

User avatar
Retired War Horses
G-Brigadier General
G-Brigadier General
Posts: 2243
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:45 am
Location: Northern Calif
Contact:

Re: MVPA Affiliate

Post by Retired War Horses » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:56 am

I couldn't disagree more...this is a state by state issue', every state deals with titling of these vehicles differently.
The MVPA cannot be the spearhead for state DMV issues, but they can work hand in hand with the local affiliates.
This is no different then the NRA and the CRPA.
This is actually the expected response i figured I would get from you Dave..which I why I'm going it alone, as well as working with other like minded folks in other states sharing information. I had a great call yesterday with Kevin Lockwood and we shared a lot of great info.
I'm of the mind "as well as others" that because this doesn't affect you MB's and GPW's, who cares....this was the same attitude that gun dealers took about assault rifles in California, now pretty much everything but a BB gun is outlawed.

I think it's fair for me to assume that I'm somewhat of a subject matter expert in the titling of current military vehicles from auctions, my company has titled no less then 25 this year alone, and let me say it's been quite interesting.

And yes, this should be it's own thread....my apologies.
Retired War Horses Restoration

Call us for all your HMMWV parts, service, upgrades and conversion needs.

User avatar
Retired War Horses
G-Brigadier General
G-Brigadier General
Posts: 2243
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:45 am
Location: Northern Calif
Contact:

Re: MVPA Affiliate/CA DMV

Post by Retired War Horses » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:59 am

Ed Roberts wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:27 pm
Steve, I agree this is of much importance to MVCC members currently and in the future. If you know, I think it would be helpful to for us to try to assist: DMV code sections they reference; Origins of changed language or requirements different from any previous. Someone or some organization requested/proposed/sponsored this. Was this an administrative or legislative change? There is a difference, and that means "who is drinking at the trough?" In other words, who benefits from this? As we all know, all kinds of can change under the guise of environmental protection and this scent is present. It would be useful to know who we are disagreeing with and why somebody or group thought it was necessary. It's also possible that this crap was sandwiched among other crap that gets instituted because our bureaucrats don't read it in the first place. "We have to pass it in order to know what's in it" I'll help where I can.
V/r Eddie Roberts. (Something old, something new, I am stuck with O.D like Elmer on glue)

Most of this is policy, and someone who has a hard on for these type of vehicles, this was the case in Kansas.
Retired War Horses Restoration

Call us for all your HMMWV parts, service, upgrades and conversion needs.

User avatar
Retired War Horses
G-Brigadier General
G-Brigadier General
Posts: 2243
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:45 am
Location: Northern Calif
Contact:

Re: Titling HMMWV, Other Ex-Military Vehicles in California

Post by Retired War Horses » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:27 am

Thanks John...
Retired War Horses Restoration

Call us for all your HMMWV parts, service, upgrades and conversion needs.

Post Reply

Return to “MVCC”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest