Thanks. I have a couple of half-ton donor frames. I will see if the rear cross member will fit. Just will need to figure out how to rivet it back together.
Zeph's Dodge WC26 Carryall Restoration
- zepher11
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Re: Zeph's Dodge WC26 Carryall Restoration
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Re: Zeph's Dodge WC26 Carryall Restoration
Apropos our recent phone conversation, I measured the distance across the opening in the back of my 3/4 ton carryall. The measurement at the point where the bottom edge of the belt line meets the top of the lower quarter panel is 46 5/8 inches.
My tailgates are not attached, but the measurement across the top of the lower gate is 46 3/8 inches.
These are both straight line measurements, not following the body curves. And this is a 3/4 ton, which might be, tho probably isn't, different from the 1/2 ton.
My tailgate, on the inside, is dented. The outside curve looks pretty correct, and a 1/8" gap seems about as good as it gets. Your pictures seem to show that the bottom gate is slightly narrower than the top gate, which if true means you might pick up some width if you flatten the curve in the gate. A risky move, tho.
I can take any other measurements you want, and could try to trace the curve of the gates if it would help.
Barry
My tailgates are not attached, but the measurement across the top of the lower gate is 46 3/8 inches.
These are both straight line measurements, not following the body curves. And this is a 3/4 ton, which might be, tho probably isn't, different from the 1/2 ton.
My tailgate, on the inside, is dented. The outside curve looks pretty correct, and a 1/8" gap seems about as good as it gets. Your pictures seem to show that the bottom gate is slightly narrower than the top gate, which if true means you might pick up some width if you flatten the curve in the gate. A risky move, tho.
I can take any other measurements you want, and could try to trace the curve of the gates if it would help.
Barry
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Re: Zeph's Dodge WC26 Carryall Restoration
Thanks Barry. My measurement at the belt line is 47 inches across which makes sense as I would like to close that by about 3/8's of an inch. I played around with the rear doors today. I loosened the rear door hinge screws to see if there would be any movement. No go. There is no adjustment. May have been originally, but someone has welded the mounting plates solid, so that there is no adjustment now. One would think there would have been some type of adjustment allowed originally.napavalleyartillery wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:20 amApropos our recent phone conversation, I measured the distance across the opening in the back of my 3/4 ton carryall. The measurement at the point where the bottom edge of the belt line meets the top of the lower quarter panel is 46 5/8 inches.
My tailgates are not attached, but the measurement across the top of the lower gate is 46 3/8 inches.
These are both straight line measurements, not following the body curves. And this is a 3/4 ton, which might be, tho probably isn't, different from the 1/2 ton.
My tailgate, on the inside, is dented. The outside curve looks pretty correct, and a 1/8" gap seems about as good as it gets. Your pictures seem to show that the bottom gate is slightly narrower than the top gate, which if true means you might pick up some width if you flatten the curve in the gate. A risky move, tho.
I can take any other measurements you want, and could try to trace the curve of the gates if it would help.
Barry
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Re: Zeph's Dodge WC26 Carryall Restoration
I realized this week that I recalled having some NOS mechanics style yokes that came with my Command Car project still covered in Cosmoline. Dug around an found them today:
Cleaned off the Cosmoline and they look fantastic. No need for Speedy Sleeves for these:
Now need to find a drive gear shim and make the final adjustment.
Cleaned off the Cosmoline and they look fantastic. No need for Speedy Sleeves for these:
Now need to find a drive gear shim and make the final adjustment.
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Re: Zeph's Dodge WC26 Carryall Restoration
Looked at my carryall again. Could not easily get to the lower tg hinge screw plate, but the upper one is real thin metal and welded in place. Pretty sure the factory installed the gates with the plates unwelded, adjusted to fit and then welded. While the lower tg is no doubt a thicker plate, no reason you couldn't cut off the original, make a new set, and follow the factory procedure.
Also I noted that on my 1937 Dodge humpback panel, which has vertical rear doors, the gap above the belt line is 1/8", while the gap below is 1/4". The point being that on civilian Dodges in that era the fit was so-so. They just did not worry if the top to bottom body fit was perfect.
If you cannot move the tgs and cannot live with the gap, consider the old restoration trick of brazing (now wire welding) an 1/8" steel welding rod to the left edge of the bottom tg, which is then ground to fit. You'd be surprised how often that was done, and how unlikely it is that anyone will notice.
Barry
Also I noted that on my 1937 Dodge humpback panel, which has vertical rear doors, the gap above the belt line is 1/8", while the gap below is 1/4". The point being that on civilian Dodges in that era the fit was so-so. They just did not worry if the top to bottom body fit was perfect.
If you cannot move the tgs and cannot live with the gap, consider the old restoration trick of brazing (now wire welding) an 1/8" steel welding rod to the left edge of the bottom tg, which is then ground to fit. You'd be surprised how often that was done, and how unlikely it is that anyone will notice.
Barry
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Re: Zeph's Dodge WC26 Carryall Restoration
I hadn't thought about grinding/removing the plates and then starting over, but that is a really good option. I wasn't sure how they did it back in the day, but that make sense. The left side wouldn't seal with weather stripping on the tailgate as it is that bad.napavalleyartillery wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:41 amLooked at my carryall again. Could not easily get to the lower tg hinge screw plate, but the upper one is real thin metal and welded in place. Pretty sure the factory installed the gates with the plates unwelded, adjusted to fit and then welded. While the lower tg is no doubt a thicker plate, no reason you couldn't cut off the original, make a new set, and follow the factory procedure.
Also I noted that on my 1937 Dodge humpback panel, which has vertical rear doors, the gap above the belt line is 1/8", while the gap below is 1/4". The point being that on civilian Dodges in that era the fit was so-so. They just did not worry if the top to bottom body fit was perfect.
If you cannot move the tgs and cannot live with the gap, consider the old restoration trick of brazing (now wire welding) an 1/8" steel welding rod to the left edge of the bottom tg, which is then ground to fit. You'd be surprised how often that was done, and how unlikely it is that anyone will notice.
Barry
The welding rod trick would be good, however I believe the whole lower tailgate is bondo. I would be afraid that thing would go up in a blaze of glory... I don't know if I could re-skin the outer part of the tailgate. Haven't really analyzed it yet. The upper tailgate with the windows appears okay and free of bondo.
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Re: Zeph's Dodge WC26 Carryall Restoration
Actually there is probably enough space ahead of the bottom screw plates to just enlarge the present threaded holes and then add a new plate on top of the current one. No grinding necessary, except where you would weld.
With regard to reskinning the lower tg, that is going to require an english wheel. Pretty sure it is a compound curve, unlike the command car flat tailgate.
But a wire welder doesn't heat up the metal all that far distant. You should be able to avoid the bondo issue.
Barry
With regard to reskinning the lower tg, that is going to require an english wheel. Pretty sure it is a compound curve, unlike the command car flat tailgate.
But a wire welder doesn't heat up the metal all that far distant. You should be able to avoid the bondo issue.
Barry
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Re: Zeph's Dodge WC26 Carryall Restoration
That's a good idea about just adding a plate over the existing plate with the ability to enlarge the holes for adjustment.napavalleyartillery wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:40 pmActually there is probably enough space ahead of the bottom screw plates to just enlarge the present threaded holes and then add a new plate on top of the current one. No grinding necessary, except where you would weld.
With regard to reskinning the lower tg, that is going to require an english wheel. Pretty sure it is a compound curve, unlike the command car flat tailgate.
But a wire welder doesn't heat up the metal all that far distant. You should be able to avoid the bondo issue.
Barry
I am going to cheat a little. I know a guy that has a body shop close by. I'm going to ask him if there is any possibility of adjusting the side. I know they have some frame tools that I would never dream of having that would allow them to fix more than I could. They have an old school guy there that may be able to provide some tips.
I just can't get started on this project until I have that rear opening figured out in my mind. I'd have this thing down to the frame by now if I didn't have to think about this...!!
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Re: Zeph's Dodge WC26 Carryall Restoration
Well, I took the Carryall to the body shop. As I suspected, they said I was screwed. I thought they may have had some magic up their sleeve to close the gap. Nope. I think Barry is on it. Slot the plates and move the door over about a quarter inch and then add a stick of welding rod on the left side of the lower tailgate to further make it look decent.
It will likely never end up looking like I would wish, but at least it will be the last thing I do on the project before final paint. I'll have a lot of time to think about it over the next year or so...
It will likely never end up looking like I would wish, but at least it will be the last thing I do on the project before final paint. I'll have a lot of time to think about it over the next year or so...
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Re: Zeph's Dodge WC26 Carryall Restoration
Even though the auto body shop told me there was noting I could do to fix the fit on the left side of the Carryall, I still had to give it one more shot. Chained it down as it kept sliding the whole vehicle over when I pulled on it, and then welded a plate to the side to pull from:
Well, still couldn't move it a millimeter, so I gave up before I tacoed it. I then moved on to the disassembly. I guess this is my official start day for restoration.
Started by removing the windows. Lots of rust. Looks kind of scary, but I'll just work on it bit by bit:
The window boxes are rotted out pretty good. In some cases, someone replaced section with some galvanized sheet metal:
Just taking it slow, so I can hopefully remember how to put all this back together!
Well, still couldn't move it a millimeter, so I gave up before I tacoed it. I then moved on to the disassembly. I guess this is my official start day for restoration.
Started by removing the windows. Lots of rust. Looks kind of scary, but I'll just work on it bit by bit:
The window boxes are rotted out pretty good. In some cases, someone replaced section with some galvanized sheet metal:
Just taking it slow, so I can hopefully remember how to put all this back together!
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Re: Zeph's Dodge WC26 Carryall Restoration
Still thinking about the left rear body tailgate opening, so took some time today and really looked it over to see how how difficult it might be to separate the spot welds and attempt to align the opening back to its original position. First I would pull over the inner support and align it after it was separated from the body. It would be much easier to pull over not attached to the body. Then I could figure out how to move the body over to the realigned pillar and reweld.
A little gun shy to try it as I know it would make a mess of the body tab that is welded to the inner support. Plus, not exactly sure how to pull the body over so that it stays for welding to the inner pillar without flexing back. Then inner pillar where the latch for the door bolts would likely be relative easy to pull over as I could weld the plate I made previously (for a third time) to that, or use the port-a-power to move it toward the inside.
Not sure I could make it look original in appearance after I was completed, but it may be possible. Lots of ideas running through my mind at the moment.
On another note. I solved the issue of going with the original mechanics u-joints. I found that I had both the front and rear NOS drive shafts from 1941 still in cosmoline that are complete including the mechanic u-joints. Very happy to find those. They came with the Command Car project. Forgot about those. I also found NOS axles still wrapped in cosmoline. I had so many extra parts when I bought the Command Car project I forgot about them. I sold quite a few things from the extra parts that came with that I may have broken even on the initial purchase of the CC.
Anyway, I won't need to stress about not having the actual u-joints/caps now:
Here's a comparison of what the cap looks like for the mechanics style u-joint in the above photo:
I also received the transfer case shims that I installed to adjust the preload on the drive bearings. Picked up a new breather/vent as well. It is the shiny thing on top on the left. When I dismantled the T-Case there was only a plug. I bet that's why these things end up leaking. Likely just have the plug and no breather:
A little gun shy to try it as I know it would make a mess of the body tab that is welded to the inner support. Plus, not exactly sure how to pull the body over so that it stays for welding to the inner pillar without flexing back. Then inner pillar where the latch for the door bolts would likely be relative easy to pull over as I could weld the plate I made previously (for a third time) to that, or use the port-a-power to move it toward the inside.
Not sure I could make it look original in appearance after I was completed, but it may be possible. Lots of ideas running through my mind at the moment.
On another note. I solved the issue of going with the original mechanics u-joints. I found that I had both the front and rear NOS drive shafts from 1941 still in cosmoline that are complete including the mechanic u-joints. Very happy to find those. They came with the Command Car project. Forgot about those. I also found NOS axles still wrapped in cosmoline. I had so many extra parts when I bought the Command Car project I forgot about them. I sold quite a few things from the extra parts that came with that I may have broken even on the initial purchase of the CC.
Anyway, I won't need to stress about not having the actual u-joints/caps now:
Here's a comparison of what the cap looks like for the mechanics style u-joint in the above photo:
I also received the transfer case shims that I installed to adjust the preload on the drive bearings. Picked up a new breather/vent as well. It is the shiny thing on top on the left. When I dismantled the T-Case there was only a plug. I bet that's why these things end up leaking. Likely just have the plug and no breather:
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Re: Zeph's Dodge WC26 Carryall Restoration
Finished up with the t-case painting of the yokes and associated hardware:
I then embarked on the attempt to line up the left rear tailgate gap again. Took the approach of moving the inside support independently from the outside body. I had some of those pilot point drill bits, and they came in really handy in drilling out the spot welds. First I needed to sandblast all the paint away to see what I had:
I figured out that the lower part that looked like a repair was solder. Both sides were identical:
Spot welds:
Here's the repair on the inside where someone worked over the left rear quarter panel:
Spot weld removal:
These were the two spots that had solder:
Here is what the lower area looked like after the solder removal. Had a cut out. Same as the other side:
Reinstalled the tailgate to see how it looks:
Pulling hard. Started with the inner support, and then worked on the body part. Tried to port-a-power it from the outside, but that didn't work. Had to weld a series of bolts to the outside of the body:
I ended up having to chain the truck down in the front and the back as the pulling force caused it to rotate with only one chain. I kinda crumpled the lower quarter panel a bit, but found that the metal is really thin there. I actually was able to move it over about a 1/4". Took most of the day and it was hot. 80 degrees I think, but felt warmer.
All welded back up and it actually looks pretty decent. I think if I slot the holes for the hinges and move the door over about 1/8", it would actually look pretty decent. Repaired side:
Other side:
Well, there will be some work on the lower left quarter, but that will pale in comparison to the other rust work I will need to do.
I then embarked on the attempt to line up the left rear tailgate gap again. Took the approach of moving the inside support independently from the outside body. I had some of those pilot point drill bits, and they came in really handy in drilling out the spot welds. First I needed to sandblast all the paint away to see what I had:
I figured out that the lower part that looked like a repair was solder. Both sides were identical:
Spot welds:
Here's the repair on the inside where someone worked over the left rear quarter panel:
Spot weld removal:
These were the two spots that had solder:
Here is what the lower area looked like after the solder removal. Had a cut out. Same as the other side:
Reinstalled the tailgate to see how it looks:
Pulling hard. Started with the inner support, and then worked on the body part. Tried to port-a-power it from the outside, but that didn't work. Had to weld a series of bolts to the outside of the body:
I ended up having to chain the truck down in the front and the back as the pulling force caused it to rotate with only one chain. I kinda crumpled the lower quarter panel a bit, but found that the metal is really thin there. I actually was able to move it over about a 1/4". Took most of the day and it was hot. 80 degrees I think, but felt warmer.
All welded back up and it actually looks pretty decent. I think if I slot the holes for the hinges and move the door over about 1/8", it would actually look pretty decent. Repaired side:
Other side:
Well, there will be some work on the lower left quarter, but that will pale in comparison to the other rust work I will need to do.
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Re: Zeph's Dodge WC26 Carryall Restoration
Hello,
Great work Zeph !!!!
I knew that you could skin that cat
Just takes some thinking and visualizing and .... Voila, that when done will be great !!!!
Best Regards,
Ray
Great work Zeph !!!!
I knew that you could skin that cat
Just takes some thinking and visualizing and .... Voila, that when done will be great !!!!
Best Regards,
Ray
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Re: Zeph's Dodge WC26 Carryall Restoration
Thanks Ray!70th Division wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:02 amHello,
Great work Zeph !!!!
I knew that you could skin that cat
Just takes some thinking and visualizing and .... Voila, that when done will be great !!!!
Best Regards,
Ray
I really hem-hawed whether I should do it or not. Finally figured it couldn't hurt...
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Re: Zeph's Dodge WC26 Carryall Restoration
Like my ol' Daddy used to say "Columbus took a chance."
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