Ford Supplier list SNL G540

[Tom Wolboldt]

Hi Chuck,

The 1 1/2 Ton Ford models 2G8T April '42, 218TF June '42 and 2GT July '42 manuals list any mfg'er other than in the bearing section so that replacement bearing could be picked up at any civilian parts shop if needed.

Also the tools in these three 1942 manuals are all Ford numbered to their '41 / '42 civilian truck sales. There is only 2 open ended wrenches in the tool kits 01A 17015 Wrench - 7/16" x 1/2" and 01A 17016 Wrench - 9/16" x 5/8".

[Chuck Lutz]

Good point Gordon...anyone know if the FORD Master Parts Manuals list the wrench mfgers by name?

[Wingnutt]

So....while we don't have EVERY Ford TM for the G540 series....the one posted does not list Ford Wrench Vendors.....pending other TMs for the other G540 family...one might have to ask the question...."Where in HELL did the manual geeks who printed the G540 SNL get those three references to mfgers of wrenches from? "

Hi Chuck. I've asked this before, but I don't understand why you keep confining questions like these to the DOE wrench vendors. The Vendors’ Part Number Index in the 15 July 1944 SNL G540 cites Mfgrs for many parts, including all the other common tools (i.e., hammer, pliers, 11 inch auto wrench, etc). The source of the information for the DOE wrenches would be the same source as all the other tools.

As for the dearth of vendors in a TM, it seems to go by OEM. I noted upthread that Dodge and Chevy had a propensity for citing them. As I recall, the Willys TM-10’s did not list many vendors either. My notes show Alemite (GG and adapter), Kelsey-Hayes (lug wrench), Bassick (oiler bracket), General Fire Truck/Fyr-Fyter (FE), Spun Steel (jack), and Warner-Gear (Bristol wrench), and most of those were “special” tools, also cited in the January 1944 SNL G503. I don't think the Willys TM 10's cited any mfgrs for the common tools, and neither did the SNL G503. I will double check that with Fred. It's fortunate that the Ordnance Dept took a different tact with the SNL G540, and, that Ford made several different trucks during the war, putting common tools with identical part numbers on many of them.

More importantly, I’m not following your logic on the significance. As far as I can see, the G8T TM Tom generously provided a scan from doesn't cite any vendors. And Ben has reported the same without a scan for the 2G8T. The fact that these G540 TM's don't include any vendors does not cast doubt on the vendors listed in the Vendors’ Part Number Index in the SNL G540. If there were vendors listed in the TM’s and they were not the same vendors as the vendors listed in the SNL G540, THEN I would have a credible reason to question the veracity of the information contained in the SNL. As for right now, there is no credible reason why I should question the veracity of the information contained in the Ford Vendors’ Part Number Index in the 15 July 1944 SNL G540. Again, with the contents of the Bizal NOS GPW kit confirming the SNL G540 vendors’ list, even less reason.

[Wingnutt]

This should fill Chuck's request in a different thread and help ( or not ) as well in this thread.

Thanks for the G8T TM, Tom. It helps corroborate the data in the SNL G658.

[Tom Wolboldt]

Hi Wingnutt,

I started to address your questions from Sat. but my head cold wants to soon turn details to goo. I will address your first point:

Note that the FSN (41-W-488) and the nomenclature are a correct match (according to the March 1945 ORD 5) but not according to Ord 5-3-2 Pricing Guide dated 2 August '45. What doesn’t match is the Ford part number. GP-17021 is the Ford part number for a 41-W-449, WRENCH, adjustable, 11” long auto type.

ORD 5-3-2 shows for listing ( 41-W-488 ) Wrench, adj., single end 12" - price $.95

There is no listing for a ( 41-W-449 ) WRENCH, adjustable, 11” long auto type in the above referenced ORD 5-3-2.

There is a listing for a ( 41-W-448 ) Wrench, auto type 11" - price $1.23

Finally there is perhaps this related listing ( 41-W-489 ) Wrench, adj., crescent type, singe end - price $11.80

[Wingnutt]

Hi Wingnutt,

I started to address your questions from Sat. but my head cold wants to soon turn details to goo. I will address your first point:

Note that the FSN (41-W-488) and the nomenclature are a correct match (according to the March 1945 ORD 5) but not according to Ord 5-3-2 Pricing Guide dated 2 August '45. What doesn’t match is the Ford part number. GP-17021 is the Ford part number for a 41-W-449, WRENCH, adjustable, 11” long auto type.

ORD 5-3-2 shows for listing ( 41-W-488 ) Wrench, adj., single end 12" - price $.95

There is no listing for a ( 41-W-449 ) WRENCH, adjustable, 11” long auto type in the above referenced ORD 5-3-2.

There is a listing for a ( 41-W-448 ) Wrench, auto type 11" - price $1.23

Finally there is perhaps this related listing ( 41-W-489 ) Wrench, adj., crescent type, singe end - price $11.80

Hi Tom,

Glad you're feeling better. Thanks for the info.

While the 41-W-488 entry in the ORD 5-3-2 does not qualify that it's a "crescent-type", 41-W-488 is identified as a crescent type in many other ORD manuals. Looks like the price guide abbreviated its nomenclature even moreso than other manuals. Note that there is no 12" auto wrench in the ORD 5. Only the 11" (41-W-448) and the 15" (41-W-450). And, the 41-W-448 nomenclature in the ORD 5-3-2, as in other manuals, more clearly matches the nomenclature for GP-17021. If Ford had been putting 12" crescent wrenches in its toolkits I might wonder. As is, I think they meant to specify the 11" auto wrench by the GP-17021 part number.

A minor glitch for sure. I just thought it was interesting given the length of the Moore auto wrench.

Finally there is perhaps this related listing ( 41-W-489 ) Wrench, adj., crescent type, singe end - price $11.80

According to the March 1945 ORD 5, that is a 15" wrench. The 4" is -484, the 6" is -485, the 8" is -486, the 10" is -487, the 12" is -488, and the 15" is -489.

[Wingnutt]

Tom,

For my own edification, was this information... viewtopic.php?p=1578095#p1578095 ...apparently showing which GPW, by registration number, got the first tire pump retainer brackets, new? Or was the information already known from another source (i.e., Ford GPW TM)?

[Tom Wolboldt]

I can not locate my tire pump mounting bracket notes but A8 would have been the first full GPW contract incorporating the brackets in production.

[Wingnutt]

Thanks, Tom.

What do you make of the grease listing in the Ford Master Parts List dated Feb. 29, '44 right below the hammer listing in relation to the lever type grease gun starting in Dec, '43 ?

Sorry for the delay. I think I have my ducks in a row on this now…

The grease gun on pg 608 (GP-17125) is the WO A-213 Alemite 5585 9 oz push type.

The grease guns on pg 609 (G8T-, 68- and 78-17125) were not distributed to the GPW.

The reason I don’t think there is a listing for the 15 oz lever type grease gun, yet, is timing. The SNL G658 is dated February 1944. The lever type grease gun was just introduced in mid December 1943. It's possible that the FMPL was already being finalized for publication without the new grease gun and adapter info.

See if this makes sense to you...

While the Jan 1944 SNL G503, maintenance parts, group 2301 - Tools, lists the 15 oz lever type grease gun as WO A-12058 and 41-G-1344-40, note that it doesn't include a Ford part number. The column is blank. That seems to support the idea that Ford may not have had a number for it yet.

The same SNL, same section, also lists the 9 oz push type grease gun as WO A-213 and it has a Ford part number GP-17125. It adds, "use until stock is exhausted, then issue 41-G-1344-40" - which is the 15 oz lever type grease gun listed one row up.

The same SNL, section 3 (Vehicular Accessories), lists "GUN, lubricating, hand type" as 41-G-1344-40, GP-17125, and WO A-12058. The 41-G-1344-40 and the WO A-12058 are the 15 oz grease gun, and they are listed as the 15 oz grease gun in the same SNL. It looks like they’re using the only Ford part number they have for a grease gun. Following that number would take anyone to the note saying to use 41-G-1344-40 when the 9 oz guns are depleted.

The grease gun adapters have a similar issue, and follow a similar pattern...

The "Adapter -grease gun (push type)" on pg 607 of the Feb 44 SNL G658 FMPL is the WO A-6151 AD 6517 "fire hose" type that went with the 9 oz push type grease gun. It has Ford part number GPW-17126. And there is no other grease gun adapter listed anywhere in the FMPL.

The Jan 1944 SNL G503, maint parts, group 2301 - Tools, lists the GG adapter as "ADAPTER, grease gun, push type (SW-6334)”. It lists it as GPW-17126 and WO A-11765. There are several problems with that. First of all, WO A-11765 is the adapter for the 15 oz lever type grease gun, and it was supplied by SW-6344. I suspect that SW-63(3)4 is a typo.

The same SNL, section 3 (Vehicular Accessories), lists, "ADAPTER, lubricating gun," as GP-17126 and WO A-11765. Again, WO A-11765 is the longer, more efficient, sliding type SW 6344 adapter.

Similar to the grease gun itself, the SNL seems to be aligning the only Ford part number it has for an adapter with the correct Willys part number for the bigger adapter that had eclipsed the previous part.

Conferring some credence to that is the July 1944 ORD 7-8-9 SNL G540. It lists "GUN, lub., chassis, hand operated, 15 oz. cap. hydr. type as 41-G-1344-40, with NO Ford part number. And, it lists ADAPTER, lubricating gun (AD-6344) as FM-GPW-17126B.

It looks like Ford, as of the 2-29-44 date of the Ford MPL SNL G-658, may not have issued any Ford part number for the 15 oz. lever action grease gun and had not yet revised existing Ford part number GPW-17126 to GPW-17126B, which appears later in SNL G540 dated 15 July 1944 with the "B" suffix.  

Thoughts?

[Tom Wolboldt]

The GPW 15 oz. Hydraulic pressure grease gun was part number G8T-17125

[Wingnutt]

Very interesting, Tom. Thanks. Makes sense. Out of curiosity - since that is not indicated in the 29 Feb 1944 SNL G658, what is the document and the date of the document that reference appears in? Is it later, or just an oversight in the MPL?

[Tom Wolboldt]

The G8T-17125 grease gun listing is on the GPW Tool Kit drawings GPW -17003-C dated 9 Dec., '43 and GPW-17003-D dated 28 Mar., '45. I believe it should also be listed in GPW ORD 7 manuals ( which I do not have ).

[Chuck Lutz]

Greg....I am zeroing in on the five wrenches for the GPW tool kit because otherwise this will be like "Tool: Whack-A-Mole". Witness the confusion over the 448/449 Adj. wrenches. That one makes NO sense.

Again...the SNL is where you find out the part number if you need to REPLACE something, right? The G-540 SNL lists THREE wrench vendors. Apparently Fairmount and Vlchek wrenches are not acceptable for replacement wrenches.... or they would have been listed as viable replacement wrenches.

So....WHY the manual geeks listed those three vendors remains unknown...and why the gov't didn't use vendors for the SAME WRENCHES that they apparently accepted as OK in other vehicle tool kits is unexplained.

You ask why you should not blindly accept something found in a GOV'T printed SNL manual that can't be found in any original Ford manual/document? I dunno, maybe because it was taken out of context perhaps? Maybe because it has no other reference anywhere else? Remember...the GOV'T SNL isn't a list of what mfgers were used to build a G503 or a G540...it is a listing of REPLACEMENT parts.

By the way, look at the SNL G-503 January 15, 1944....it is for the Willys Model MB and Ford GPW. Look in the back under Vendor's Numerical Index. Look up Barcalo Buffalo, BHM and Duro-Chrome.....Hmm, wait a minute...they aren't LISTED? You mean the actual GOV'T printed SNL for the actual G-503 does NOT list the vendors?

As I have been saying, if the G-503 SNL can't bother to list vendors (the GOV'T can buy replacements from whomever they WANT) for wrenches, then what and why does the G-540 SNL list them?

[Wingnutt]

SNL's also include Vehicular Equipment, quantity 1 each, i.e., what tools come with the vehicle originally. And the later ORD 7-8-9's included the same list. I'll refer you back to the beginning of the thread for more, as this has been discussed several times, but I will re-emphasize here, again - because it's unignorably important - that the lists are NOT the same. The "Group 2300 - Tools" part of the ORD 8 section of the July 1944 ORD 7-8-9 SNL G540, on page 124, includes less than half the common tools in the G540 toolkit. Only the pliers, hammer, and screwdriver are represented for spares (8 per 100 vehicles). The "Vehicular Equipment" list, on page 34-35 in the ORD 7 section, has all the tools, including the parts that are NOT included in the replacements section, such as the adapter, bag, FE, TPG, grease gun, oiler, pump, 11" auto wrench, hub wrench, and 5 DOE wrenches, quantity 1 each.

So, since you want to focus on the DOE wrenches, why are the Ford part numbers for the DOE wrenches included in the Vendors Part Number Index, next to Barcalo, BHM, and Duro-Chrome, if the DOE wrenches are not included in the Group 2301 - Tools list spares? Same question applies to General Detroit, Fyr-Fyter, American LaFrance, Eagle, Gem, and Moore, since they are all listed in the Vendors Index, but the Ford part numbers they supplied to Ford are not included in the spares section of the ORD 8 either.

As for the G503 SNL, as I have been saying since the early pages of this thread, there are mfgrs listed in the Mfgrs Index, including for some of the tools (e.g., Warner Gear, Alemite, etc). Does anyone question their veracity? Similarly, does anyone question whether or not Budd (listed in the Vendors Index of the SNL G540) supplied the rifle holder? Does anyone question whether or not Stewart-Warner, King-Seeley, and Waltham (listed in the Vendors Index of the SNL G540) supplied speedos? As was already discussed upthread, who knows why there aren't more tool Mfgrs cited in the SNL G503 and later ORD 7-8-9 SNL G503 (but I do have my theories, already posted here earlier), or, why some SNL's (Dodge) are replete with vendor citations, and others aren't. If I was a Ford guy, or anyone interested in assembling a Ford GPW kit, I'd be thankful they decided to be way more extensive with the tool vendors in the SNL G540, since the large majority of the Ford part numbers are identical, and the models were built in parallel.

[Wingnutt]

The G8T-17125 grease gun listing is on the GPW Tool Kit drawings GPW -17003-C dated 9 Dec., '43 and GPW-17003-D dated 28 Mar., '45.

Thanks, Tom.