PLOMB progress, questions, & stuff needed

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Wingnutt
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Re: PLOMB progress, questions, & stuff needed

Post by Wingnutt » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:29 am

I've never seen this thread before, Gordon, so I went back to the top.
Gordon_M wrote:There is room in that box for a 4712S, ( 3/8" ) 8-point socket. The 4712S does not appear in the pre-war PLOMB catalogues, but does appear in the post-war PROTO catalogue. Can anyone tell me if PLOMB made a 4712S, prior to the PROTO name change?
As far as I know, Plomb did not make a 4812S. Which makes Plomb a poor candidate for a late war GMTK midget set, which included an 8-point 3/8" socket (41-W-2972-640). Duro, S-K, SW, and Bonney all made "star" or "double-square" sockets in 1/4, 5/16, and 3/8.

As far as room goes, you have nine (9) sockets in that box. Plomb wartime midget sets (4000F, 4000R, and 4000B) all had different numbers and types of handles and extensions etc, but they all had the same sockets. There were ten (10).

Which do you have and which one are you missing?
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Re: Yet more Plomb

Post by Gordon_M » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:38 am

Wingnutt wrote: It is probably a very special order contract wrench.
I'm fairly sure it was WW2 production, and made for a particular task, just no idea what the task was .... It is exactly the sort of wrench I would expect to have a PWA or similar contract marking on.

Do we have any guidance as to why 19/32" and 25/32' appeared on so many WW2 government wrenches and sockets? The only reason I could think of would be if they were expected to fit worn 5/8" or 13/16" nuts or heads. Apart from that I'm stumped

That little wrench will live with its friends in my McAleer box, and I'll certainly look out for any more similar wrenches that don't have number codes, contract codes, or odd sizes.
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Unusual, but apparently not rare

Post by Gordon_M » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:19 am

Gordon_M wrote:
... an unremarkable 5/8" and 19/32" double open end wrench. WW2 from the markings and finish, almost certainly so since it was auctioned here in the UK. The back face is completely plain, and that size combination does not appear in any of my Plomb or Proto catalogs, pre- during, or post-war. The 19/32" end suggests military too, but does anyone have a government spec for that size combination - anyone else have one of these?
... and even better, when I got home to check the Plomb box I found I had another identical unnumbered wrench in there. Markings are struck more neatly but are identical, as are the two wrenches - at least within normal manufacturing tolerances. I'll bet another one shows up soon.
twins.jpg
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Tim - you have one of these? you watch the same auctions I do.
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PLOMB 25/32 x 7/8 non-catalogue

Post by Gordon_M » Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:00 am

PLOMB_25_32_7_8.jpg
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Another one turns up in the UK. 25/32" and 7/8" are both standard Plomb catalogue sizes, but not together on the same wrench, and there's no reference number on it as there would be with a standard catalogue item. The finish and "Made in USA" again strongly suggest it arrived during WW2.

This must be another example of off-catalogue production for a specific order, note that this wrench, and the size above, have one standard size and one 32nd inch size. There are loads of Plomb wrenches here with "W" ( Whitworth ) identifiers against the sizes which look like they would have been made on similar orders.
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Re: PLOMB progress, questions, & stuff needed

Post by twertsy » Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:18 am

Gordon_M wrote:
... but I have a question. There is room in that box for a 4712S, ( 3/8" ) 8-point socket. The 4712S does not appear in the pre-war PLOMB catalogues, but does appear in the post-war PROTO catalogue. Can anyone tell me if PLOMB made a 4712S, prior to the PROTO name change? I'm also working on the 3/8" CUB socket set and the combination wrench set which are both moving on nicely towards completion.

Which leads to the PLOMB 'stuff needed' section. I'm looking for a 4712S, as above, and I'd like a 1/4" breaker bar too. ( I have a couple of the NOS 9/32" breakers and resisting the temptation to do a little grinding ) There has been a 1/4" PLOMB breaker on the auction site for a while, and if you see the price you can work out why it is still there ... :o

I also have very little in the way of DBE ( 1126 ) and DOE ( 3051, 3026 ) so if anyone has several PLOMB DBE, DOE, or a mixture to sell I might be interested, as buying them from the auction site one at a time costs a fortune, with postage / packing typically several times the wrench price.
Gordon, I have 8 sets of those Plomb midgets, along with a lot of extra sockets. No 4712S in any of them. Hope that helps. Todd

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Re: PLOMB progress, questions, & stuff needed

Post by Gordon_M » Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:39 am

Thanks Todd. I think we concluded that they only made them later, with PROTO branding

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Plated Plombs

Post by Gordon_M » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:15 am

Picked up a pair of 1145's recently, 1" x 15/16". Basic items are fine, but they were originally plated, and the plating is peeling off very noticeably.
PLOMB_1145.jpg
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Date code stamping looks like "EB" which I take it would have to be February 1948 - anyone confirm?
PLOMB_CODE.jpg
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If I'm right about the date these are the 'newest' Plomb items I have, prior to the PROTO brand showing up.
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Re: PLOMB progress, questions, & stuff needed

Post by Tin Medic » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:39 am

I don't have my research with me but I don't recall Plomb starting the date code system back up after 42.


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Re: PLOMB progress, questions, & stuff needed

Post by Wingnutt » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:36 am

Gordon_M wrote:Date code stamping looks like "EB" which I take it would have to be February 1948 - anyone confirm?
Tin Medic wrote:I don't have my research with me but I don't recall Plomb starting the date code system back up after 42.
Per Alloy Artifacts, the pre-war date code system (which was alphanumeric - number-letter, e.g., 8B, 9C, etc) ended in 1942. AA doesn't offer an explanation for the numbers, just the letters, as far as I know.

Summary of AA number-letter era dating:
PLOMB LA - 7,8,9,0,1,2,3 (1927-1933)
PLVMB LA - 4,5,6,7,8 (1934-1938)
PLVMB USA - 9,0,1,2 (1939-1941)

Todd and others (not sure who) have proposed a theory for the PLVMB USA tools found with letter-letter codes, which they assert are all wartime. (I am not wholly convinced about their theory at this time, but it is very compelling.)

Summary of Tool Archives letter-letter dating:
LA: December 1941
AB - LB: January 1942 - December 1942
AC - LC:- January 1943 - December 1943
AD - LD: January 1944 - December 1944
AE - ?E: January 1945 - ? 1945

AA has no theory for your wrench, Gordon.

Using the Tool Archives theory, your wrench would've been made in May 1942, which seems unlikely (but perhaps not impossible) given the chrome plating.
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Re: PLOMB progress, questions, & stuff needed

Post by d42jeep » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:44 am

According to Twertsy's research, EB would indicate production in May of 1942. You can check this timeline on his website.

http://toolarchives.com/?q=Plomb-Company-timeline

-Don
Edit...
I see that Wingnutt and I were writing our responses at the same time. Great minds and all that....
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Re: PLOMB progress, questions, & stuff needed

Post by Gordon_M » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:37 am

That would be a result then, so just before the alloying element and plating restrictions came in, then, rather than after they finished.

Definitely plated, and identical markings, wear, etc.
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PLOMB RANGER A.T. 154 & 156

Post by Gordon_M » Fri May 12, 2017 1:28 am

This weeks purchases here in the UK;
PLOMB_RANGER_AT_154.jpg
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PLOMB_RANGER_AT_156.jpg
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... from the same seller, so probably been together since they were made. No MADE IN USA although they look WW2 period, and no catalogue number of course.
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Re: PLOMB progress, questions, & stuff needed

Post by d42jeep » Fri May 12, 2017 3:47 am

Those are very unusual, Gordon. Do you mind if I post them on the Garage Journal's Plomb thread to see if any other wrenches with similar markings have been found by their members?
-Don
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Re: PLOMB progress, questions, & stuff needed

Post by Gordon_M » Fri May 12, 2017 3:59 am

d42jeep wrote:Those are very unusual, Gordon. Do you mind if I post them on the Garage Journal's Plomb thread to see if any other wrenches with similar markings have been found by their members?
-Don
Not at all Don, feel free. They haven't arrived yet, these are just auction images, but there is no sign that there are any markings on the reverse. I have five distinct categories of non-catalogue Plomb stuff in my pile;

1. Wright Field items made for the US government.
2. Ranger AT items made for Fairchild Aviation
3, PWA items made for Pratt and Whitney.
4. Whitworth-marked units - fairly obviously made for the British Commonwealth forces.
5. Oddball un-numbered items of particular sizes, like the 25/32" by 7/8" items up top.

Although the Wright Field stuff has been bought from all over, categories 2, 3, 4, and 5 have virtually all been bought from auctions and sales here in the UK, suggesting that categories 4 & 5 are pretty much the same except that category 5 stuff isn't distinctively marked as Whitworth. Further, I have no evidence that Plomb had much of a presence here in the UK pre- or post-WW2, so I'd suggest we have items made specifically for the British Commonwealth during WW2, plus US military leavings from WW2 through to 1948.

It would be interesting to hear what GJ's other members have found, particularly category 5 stuff in the US.
Gordon

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Re: PLOMB progress, questions, & stuff needed

Post by d42jeep » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:44 am

Hi Gordon,
Apparently nobody on the Garage Journal was familiar with your wrench, since there were no responses. I revisited this thread because I recently picked up some Plomb 1/4" drive tools marked IC and they got me interested in finding a wartime Plomb set. I found an ad from a 1944 magazine and a set that was a close match on eBay. Here are some pictures.
-Don
Attachments
IMG_4832.JPG
Plomb Estate sale sockets and extension
IMG_4832.JPG (165.8 KiB) Viewed 3101 times
IMG_4835.JPG
Plomb 1/4" drive set
IMG_4835.JPG (159.69 KiB) Viewed 3101 times
IMG_4836.JPG
Plomb 1/4" drive set box exterior
IMG_4836.JPG (137.25 KiB) Viewed 3101 times
IMG_4826.JPG
1944 Plomb ad close
IMG_4826.JPG (177.95 KiB) Viewed 3101 times
Ford GPW 76344 DOD 11/42 Built in Richmond, CA


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