G503 Military Vehicle Message Forums

17thAirborne wrote:Does anyone have a representative image of a RYAN marked chisel?

Looks like Silly's MB posted some HERE.
-Jason

Excellent, thanks

I see Ryan is on the list of wartime manufacturers: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=242969

I cannot find a wartime catalog to verify that era's logo. I see slight differences in the height of the "RYAN", but the two dashes "=" on either side seem to be consistently there. =RYAN=

Wingnutt wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:39 pm

I've been thinking about the vintage of the Starrett punches that most of us have been finding...We'll have to sort this out eventually.

The .pdf blueprint from the Starrett site (see http://www.starrett.com/metrology/produ ... #Downloads then the 2D Dimensional Drawing), indicates that the Starrett punches with 3 lines are current production. My 1980 (!) Starrett catalog pictures don't give enough info to draw a conclusion about the markings.

HTH,
Steve

Steve,

My view is that design characteristics on many of these items haven't changed much, if at all, in 70 years. That's why I presume everything I see at the flea market is modern production and rely on the details to tell the real story. As the saying goes, the devil is in the details, from the fonts of stampings, logo styles, etc.

And... that's why information like yours (and others posted here) is invaluable to help me and others discern the WWII correct items from "look alike" modern place holders so that our hard earned dollars are not wasted.

Thank you,
Henry

17thAirborne wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:11 pm

I see Ryan is on the list of wartime manufacturers: http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=242969

Oz,
Ryan is on the A List (VERIFIED) because Roger Milam (Silly's MB) found a few examples in the UK and asked me to look them up in the MWSC books, I did, and they are a verified supplier.

17thAirborne wrote:I cannot find a wartime catalog to verify that era's logo. I see slight differences in the height of the "RYAN", but the two dashes "=" on either side seem to be consistently there. =RYAN=

Sorry I can't help, Oz. I have done no further research on Ryan. But I wouldn't sweat it too much if I were you.

I have stated my philsophy many times before about situations like this, but if it helps, I will state it again. It's a hobby, not museum curating. The amount and depth of research we have done on the GMTK, collectively, and the degree of integrity and best judgement everyone more or less shows in trying to do their best to collect tools that meet the standards of verification and validation for specifications, production age (vintage), and branding, has been nothing short of incredible. These =RYAN= tools are a good example of a marginal choice right now. The brand has been verified. Without a way, at this time, to definitively distinguish a WWII vintage example of a Ryan punch or chisel from a more modern vintage example, other than gut feel (finish, patina, wear, etc), if you really want to put them in your kit, nobody has a right - and more importantly, any substantive evidence to the contrary - for why you should not! I dare say nobody is more of a stickler than I am on proven standards. By the same token, I am extremely tolerant and open on small innocuos maybes, while they're in small innocuous maybe stages. It doesn't hurt anything. And it's often more interesting than seeing the same tired brands. In this case, we have a long-time collector in the UK adding a brand to our repertoire. So what if a few kits sport some Ryan tools and we find out later that the =RYAN= with the long letters is correct and the squatter logos are more modern, or vice versa? It moves the hobby forward, without sapping all the fun out of it with grinchly cynicism.

sorry i missed your post. Thanks for adding to the =RYAN= discussion. i feel better about having a few in there now. been working on my WC12 quite earnestly. when that is done i can get back to work on the kit and finish it. i am amazed at how heavy the box is getting.

Like most collectors, I've found it difficult to get excited about the chisels and punches that are included in the various versions of the MVMTS/GMTS. I recently acquired this quarter inch diameter, drive-pin punch, manufactured by “United USA” which is only the second punch that I have marked with its US manufacturer. I have a single US diamond-point chisel (Herbrand 431) but it is not the correct specification. It did lead me to re-reading this topic!

There appear to be three alternative quarter inch diameter punches cited for the various GMTK's, namely: 41-P-3642, 41-P-3642-400 & 41-P-3606. Under the “nomenclature” headings, the first two are described as having a “tapered” design. However, as Greg alias “Wingnutt” has already mentioned in this excellent Punch & Chisel thread, Figure 13 in the 1944 GMTS ORD 6 SNL G-27 RAPD 61760, is misleading as 41-P-3642-400 is shown as not tapered and 41-P-3606 is shown as tapered! There appears to be some confusion here between Type VIII Class A and Type VIII Class C (tapered?) punches as described in the 1933/1939 Federal Specification.

I had no luck finding out about the manufacture other than locating Phil Jones' example of a “United” chisel in his 2016 post:
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=230408&hilit=GMTK+ ... 5#p1610826
Has anyone else come across this manufacturer?

Since I remembered that the brand was included in Phil's Wynmkr set, I grab them if I run across them in the wild, which isn't often. Here are a couple of pictures.
-Don

I've got at least 1 UNITED punch in my kit as well. As Don said, there was a 1/4" UNITED punch in the WYNMKR kit posted HERE.